MR. LLOYD: Thank you, Your Honor.

The defense would call Kim Kimble to the stand. KIMBERLY KIMBLE, being first duly sworn, testified as follows during DIRECT EXAMINATION by MR. LLOYD:

Q    Mrs. Kimble, would you state your name for the record, please.

A    Kimberly Kimble.

Q    If you could keep your voice up, so the jurors all the way over here at the end can hear you. And Mrs. Kimble, where do you live now?

A    5821 Monnett Road in Julian.

Q    And where do you work, Mrs. Kimble?

A    Jefferson-Pilot Financial Insurance.

Q    And do you know the defendant in this case, Ronnie Kimble?

A    Yes.

Q    How is it that you know him?

A    He's my husband.

Q    And Mrs. Kimble, when were you married?

A    December 10, 1994.

Q    And was that here in Greensboro?    _

A    Julian.

Q    All right. And how long prior to that had you known your husband?

A    About 12 years.

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Q    And after your marriage, what sort of work pursuit did Ronnie Kimble pursue?

A    He was in the military when we got married, and he was continuously in it.

Q    And what branch of the military, Mrs. Kimble?

A    Marines.

Q    All right. And where was he stationed at that time?

A    Camp Lejeune.

Q    All right. And after your marriage, where did you live?

A    For the first six months, we lived in Swansboro, which is right there at Camp Lejeune. And then, we moved back six months after that, approximately June, and got a mobile home, and it's where we are now, currently.

Q    All right. And when you got the mobile home, where was that mobile home?

A    Where it's located now?

Q    Yeah. Well, yes, where it's located now. Where is it?

A    5821 Monnett Road.

Q    Okay. So that's the same residence that you're living at now?

A    Correct.

Q    And when did you get your mobile home?

A    We got -- we ordered it like in May, and we -- and it was delivered like the first week in June of '95.

Q    All right. And so, you moved into it sometime in June of '95 or shortly thereafter?

A    Yes.

Q    All right. Now, were you working at that time --

A    Yes.

Q    -- around that date when you moved into the mobile home in June?

A    Yes.

Q    And where were you working at that time?

A    Physical Therapy and Sports Rehab in Greensboro.

Q    And what did you do for them?

A    I was a physical therapy assistant.

Q    And what did your duties and responsibilities entail?

A    Massages, phonophoresis, exercise, you know, things like that, for people who had injuries, sports injuries.

Q    Now, Kim, directing your attention to the weekend of October 9th and that prior weekend of 1995, do you recall if your husband, Ronnie, came home that weekend?

A    The weekend --

Q    Of Patricia's death.

A    -- right before --

Q    Yes.

A    Yes, he did.

Q    All right. And where did he come home from?

A    Camp Lejeune. He had a 96 that week.

Q    And when you say a 96, for members of the jury who don't have military experience, what does that refer to?

A    It was a holiday for the military, or federal, I'm not sure. But he got off on that Friday and didn't have to report back till like the following Tuesday.

Q    All right. And do you recall what time he got in on that Friday?

A    It was sometime that evening. It wasn't late, because he got in just there right -- I mean, it was maybe 30 minutes after I got home from work.

Q    And directing your attention to the events of October the 9th, the day that Kim -- that Patricia died, excuse me

A    Uh-huh.

Q    -- do you recall what you did that morning?

A    I went to work.

Q    All right. And was Ronnie -- what time did you get up, Kim?

A    Around 6:30.

Q    All right. And did Ronnie get up with you at that time?

A    Yes.

Q    Do you recall what he did?

A    He was going to get dressed and leave before myself.

Q    All right. And did he do so?

A    Yes.

Q    All right. And do you know what his plans were that day?

A    He -- since he was off that day and I had to work, our plans were for him to get some underpinning, to underpin our trailer, because it was already October and, you know, we didn't want pipes to start freezing.

Q    All right. And do you know if he had any plans to get the underpinning in a particular place?

A    Atlantic Mobile Home Supply.

Q    And do you know how he planned on transporting the underpinning?

A    He had asked his brother that weekend if he could borrow a box truck, to haul it in, because we didn't have a vehicle that would haul that.

Q    All right. And was that his brother Ted?

A    Yes.

Q    And when he left that morning, do you remember which car he was driving?

A    He drove the Camaro.

Q    All right.

A    It's --

Q    And so, what car did that leave you with?

A    White Daytona, Dodge.

Q    And do you know where Ronnie was going when he left

your mobile home that morning?

A    He was going to go over to Ted's and Patricia's house, to pick up the box truck, because that's where he was told it would be.

Q    Okay. Now, after you left for work, did you hear anything from Ronnie?

A    Yes, I did.

Q    All right. And when was that?

A    It was around 12:30.

Q    And what did Ronnie tell you at 12:30?

A    We had planned on possibly going to lunch together that day, because we never get to do that, because he's not in during the week. And I asked him had he picked up the underpinning, and he said, "Yes." And I said, "Well, have you got started on it?" And he said, "No." He's a procrastinator. And so, I told him to go on and go home and start putting up the underpinning, because I knew he had to be back at work the next day.

Q    All right. So you did not go to lunch --

A    No.

Q    -- with your husband that day?

A    No, sir.

Q    And instead, encouraged him to get on the job installing the underpinning?

A    Correct.

Q    Now, did you hear from him again during the course of the day, before you saw him after you came home from work?

A    Yes, I did.

Q    All right. And about when was that, if you remember?

A    It was sometime after 3:00. It wasn't much after 3:00. And he called, and was just letting me know that he was going to go up to Ted's business to pick up a tooth saw blade or something like that, to cut the underpinning, because he couldn't cut it with what he had, it wasn't cutting it right, it was tearing it up.

Q    And did you encourage him to get on the job with installing the underpinning at that time?

A    Yes, I did.

Q    Now, Kim, when was it that you actually saw Ronnie, after you got the call from him about the saw blade?

A    I get home from work -- I got -- at that time, I got home from work around 20 minutes till 6:00.

Q    All right. So that would have been 5:40; is that correct?

A    Yes.

Q    And did you see Ronnie at that time?

A    Yes, I did.

Q    And how was the underpinning job progressing? A    It was -- he had had like a tracking put up, but the underpinning was laying out.

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Q    All right.

A    I told you he's a procrastinator, so he --

Q    And what did you say to Ronnie when you saw him when you got home from work?

A    Well, I went over there and I hugged him and kissed him and asked him "What you been doing?" "You know the underpinning needs to be --" you know, "Are we going to get this underpinning up before you go back in the morning?" He was having trouble with it. It wasn't staying on the track right. And he had just said, "Did you just --" "Didn't you just miss your dad? He was just here." And I said, "I didn't pass him." Of course, I probably came a different way than he went home.

Q    Now, when you say your dad, what is his name?

A    James Stump.

Q    All right. And where do your parents live, Kim?

A    Just around the corner --

Q    Okay.

A    -- on Coble Church Road.

Q    And if you know, Kim, how far is it, in terms of --

A    I don't know. I don't know.

Q    Well, is it less than a mile?

A    Yes.

Q    All right. Is it a distance that you could walk?

A    Oh, yes, definitely. I have before.

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Q    And had you -- on that occasion, had you seen your father?

A    No, I had not.

Q    All right. And what did you -- after you had gotten home, what did you and Ronnie do at that point?

A    We pretty much -- he'd gave up on the underpinning. He said that dad and a friend was going to look at it, and try to get it up or, you know, help him out, until he had to come back in for the weekend. And I was hungry, he was hungry, so we decided we was going to get something to eat. But I didn't want to cook. I'm not much of a cook. I don't like to cook. And so -- but I didn't want to really go out. And I knew I needed to go over to my mother's, so we were discussing that. And he was going to go on in and take a shower, and then we were going to head out.

Q    All right. And did Ronnie in fact take a shower?

A    Yes, he did.

Q    And you mentioned something about your mother's. Did you go over to your mother's?

A    Yes, we did.

Q    And if you recall, Kim, what time did you get over to your mother's?

A    It was about 6:15, somewhere around there.

Q    All right. And was there anything that you were able to gauge the time by?

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A    The news was on. When we got in, I -- my mother and I was going to go over ABC Distributing catalog. I was going to get some stuff for Christmas presents. And Ronnie went in partially into the living room, because he didn't want to take his shoes off, and you don't walk on the carpet with shoes. And he and my dad were sitting there watching Channel 2, and "2 Wants to Know" was on, and they were talking something about mobile homes. So him and my dad was kind of interested in that, since we had just purchased one, and we had had trouble ourselves, trying to get things fixed that was supposed to have been fixed and wasn't, things that was supposed to have been added and wasn't, and that's what Channel 2 was talking about.

Q    So this was some kind of investigative reporting on defects in mobile homes that people were having difficulty in getting fixed or refunds on or whatever; is that correct?

A    Yes.

Q    All right. And you said something about your mother and ABC Distributing company?

A    That's correct.

Q    Did you talk with your mother?

A    Yes. We were in the kitchen discussing it.

Q    And you had mentioned something, Kim, that this was -­this involved a catalog?

A    Yes. You order out of it items, you know. So we were

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-- she was writing it down, because she was going to take it to her place of employment, and they do it there, and so, she was going to take it to her place of employment and give them my order, so I could get it back before Christmas.

Q    And you indicated that you were -- this was primarily for getting Christmas presents --

A    Yes.

Q    -- for you, right?

A    Yes.

Q    Do you remember how many Christmas presents you were going to order from that catalog?

A    Quite a few. I don't know the exact amount, but it was -- it was quite a few.

Q    All right. And did you and your mother sit down and talk about that?

A Yes, we did. It took some time, because like I said, it -- I ordered a lot, and I think she'd even ordered some herself, so we were just writing it all down together, so she could give it all to them at once.

Q    And did you socialize during the course of your conversation?

A    My mother and I?

Q    Yes.

A    Yes, we did.

Q    All right. Now, did you eat at your parents' house?

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A    No, sir, we did not.

Q    Do you remember, Kim, how long you stayed there?

A    At least an hour or so, because I know that when we were getting ready to leave, "Wheel of Fortune" was on, and I know it comes on at 7:00. So it was -- it was at least an hour or more.

Q    Okay. What happened when you left?

A    Ronnie and I headed to Winn-Dixie, to pick up some supper.

Q    All right. Now, let me get you to back up in your memory, Kim.

A    Okay.

Q    Do you recall anything significant about leaving?

A    Yes. Mom and dad -- we're all real close, and Ronnie travels all the time. He'd come home on weekends and then he would leave. And mom and dad's always made a point that when we get ready to leave their house, they walk out with us, to tell him "Bye. Be careful." And they were doing that, you know, because they knew he was going to leave the next day. They were telling him "Bye" and "Be careful" and "Don't fall asleep," because he has a sleeping disorder.

And we probably were out there maybe five or 10 minutes, and then we headed on.

Q    So Ronnie had to be back at the base –

A    The next --

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Q    -- noon of the next morning?

A    Yes.

Q    Which would have been Tuesday; is that correct?

A    Correct.

Q    So what time was he planning on leaving in the morning?

A    Pretty early, because like I said, he's -- he has a hard time staying awake, so he wanted to try to get back. Plus, it's hard to get on the base when you've had a 96 or something and everybody's trying to get on it at once.

Q    So he was going to allow himself extra time to get checked in; is that right?

A    Yes.

Q    All right. Now, after you left your parents' house, where did you go?

A    We went to the Winn-Dixie at Forest Oaks.

Q    And what was the purpose of that, Kim?

A    To pick up something to eat for supper.

Q    Okay. Do you remember -- Well, let me strike that. When you went to the Winn-Dixie, what did you purchase there?

A    We wanted something quick, and so -- because we wanted to get to bed early, and so, we picked up like two stuffed flounders and a bag of Tater Tots.

Q    Okay. Did you have any problems in getting anything at the --

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A    Yeah. No one was at the seafood, and so, it took awhile to get someone to come to the seafood. And one of the girls that I had had as a patient at physical therapy worked there, and I saw her, and so, we spoke, and I introduced her to Ronnie.

Q    Now, what was her name, Kim?

A    Melissa Williford.

Q    And how did you know this woman?

A    She was a patient at Physical Therapy and Sports Rehab. She had had an ACL done on her knee.

Q    Okay. When you say ACL, what do you mean?

A    She had had to have surgery, because it was -- the tendons and stuff were all messed up and she couldn't walk on it, so she had to have surgery.

Q    Now, did she help you in getting someone into the seafood department?

A    Yes, she did. She motioned for someone to -- she went up and motioned for somebody to come in, to go back to the seafood counter and get what we needed.

Q    And you indicated that sometime during this conversation with her, that you introduced her to Ronnie?

A    Yes, I did.

Q    Had she -- I take it by that she had not met Ronnie prior to that point?

A    No. I had talked to her, you know, because when you're

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working with somebody in a physical therapy setting, you kind of get to know them pretty well, because you're sitting there just kind of talking to them, while they're riding a bike or something. And I had told her about him being in the military and told her that he came home on weekends. So she sort of knew him, but she -- you know, she'd not met him. So when we were there at the grocery store, I introduced her. And after he walked off, she goes, "Well, he's really cute," you know, so she -- you know --

Q    All right. Did you take that as a compliment?

A    Yes, I did. I told her "Thank you."

Q    After that conversation, and after you got the fish and -- I believe you said you got another food item; is that right?

A    Yes, we did.

Q    Did you check out and pay for your purchases?

A    Yes, we did.

Q    All right.

MR. LLOYD: If I may approach, Your Honor.

THE COURT: You may.

Q    Now, Kim, I hand you what's been marked as Defendant's Exhibit Number 12, and ask you if you recognize that.

A    Yes, I do.

Q    And what is it?

A    It's the check that I used to pay for the food items

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that we got at Winn-Dixie that night.

Q    All right. And when you paid for the check -- for the food items with the -- with your personal check, did the cashier run it through the machine?

A    Yes.

Q    All right. And what is the date on the check that you wrote, Kim, your date that you put on it?

A    October 9, 1995.

Q    Now, directing your attention to the back, the cancelled part of the check, does the writing show on there a time?

A    Yes, it does.

Q    And what is that time?

A    7:36 p.m.

Q    All right. And is that consistent with what you remember about when you checked out of Winn-Dixie and paid for your purchases?

A    Yes.

Q    And after that, what did you do, Kim?

A    We went back to our home.

Q    All right. Now, had you gone straight from your parents' house to Winn-Dixie?

A    Yes, we did.

Q    All right. And what did you do when you got home?

A    We put the stuffed flounder in the oven. And I wanted

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to go ahead and take my shower and wash my hair, so I jumped in the shower, and he sits there and talks to me while I'm in the shower. And I told him, I said, "Keep an eye on the," you know, "the food, so we don't burn." And after I got out of the shower, we sat in our living room and watched the program that came on at 8:30, which was a 30-minute program, and sat there and ate.

Q    All right. And did there come a time when you went to bed?

A    Yes, at 9:00 o'clock --

Q    All right.

A    -- after that show was off.

Q    Now, did you get any phone calls that night?

A    Yes, we did.

Q    And if you remember, Kim, when did you get a phone call?

A    It was about 9:15. We were just -- you know, like I say, we went to bed about 9:00 o'clock, so we had not really gotten in bed pretty good. So --

Q    And did you answer the phone at that time?

A    Yes, I did.

Q    And --

A    It was beside me.

Q    -- who was it on the phone?

A    It was -- well, I didn't know at that time. It sounded

1709

like a frantic voice, and she was just like, "Edna?" which is my mother-in-law. I said, "No, this is not Edna, but this is her youngest son's residence. Can I help you?" And she said, "No. I just need to speak to Edna." She said, "I'll just call there." And I said, "Okay." And she seemed, you know, sort of fearful in her voice or something like that.

And so, I hung up the phone, and Ronnie said, "Who was that?" I said, "I don't know. I didn't ask." I said, "Probably somebody from the church." Because my father-in-law is a minister at Monnett Road Baptist Church. And I said, "But she sounded really worried." I said, "I wonder if everything's okay?" And I know just about everybody in our church, so I was a little worried myself, because it's not a huge church, but I've been there for so long, I know everybody.

And so, I tried to call Edna myself at home, at her home, and no one answered. So I was like, "Well," you know, "maybe I'll find out tomorrow."

So within two or three minutes, the phone rung again, and she told me her name was Christie Blakley, and that it was Reuben's wife, which was Patricia's brother. And I said, "Yeah," you know, "what's wrong?" And she says, "Don't be too alarmed, but Ted and Trish's house is on fire. I was wondering if y'all could come on up here." And I

1710

said, "Okay." And then I started getting a little frantic. I said, "Is everybody okay?" And she said, "Well, Ted's here. We don't know where Patricia is, but," you know, "we don't know. If y'all could just come on up there. And if you could get in touch with Edna." Well, Ron's out of town, because he was in Lynchburg, Virginia.

Q    Now, when you say "Ron," who do you mean by Ron?

A    Ronnie Kimble. He's my father-in-law.

Q    This would be Ron, Sr.?

A    Yes. I'm sorry.

Q    All right. And so, were you able to get in touch with Ronnie's mother?

A    No. I paged her twice, and I never got a return call. That's when I called my mother and told her, and she said -­I said, "Please keep trying to get in touch with Edna," because I felt like she needed to know. And she said, "Okay." And I said, "We'll get back in touch with you, once we come back." And so, I left it to my mother -- I left it up to my mother, to try to get in touch with Edna.

Q    And what did you and Ronnie do at that point?

A    We quickly got dressed and went over to Patricia and Ted's house in the white Daytona.

Q    Did you -- and what did you find when you got to Patricia's house?

A    Tons of emergency vehicles, and just personnel. And

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when we got there, we parked on the other side of Brandon Station Court, on the right-hand side, I guess it was Brandon Station Road, because that's the only place we could find a place to park.

Q    And did you learn immediately the situation regarding Patricia?

A    No. I mean, we knew that the house, you know, had been on fire, because the fire trucks were there, but that's all we knew, until, you know, we went up there. And we were trying to get through the heavy traffic of people, and they're like -- one of the, I think it was a fireman said, "You can't go through." Or it might have been a police officer. And Ronnie said, "Well, this is my brother's house." And they were like, "Oh, okay. You can go on in."

And a lady that I used to know really well, named Suzy Marley, came up to me. Her husband, I don't know if he's a chief now, but he used to be chief at Pleasant Garden, hugged me, and she said she was really sorry. And I was like, "What are you talking about?" you know, because, I mean, I didn't know anything, I'd just got there. And she said, "I think there's a body in there." And she said, "The house is on fire." That's all I know and that's all she told me. And then we headed on through.

Q    Okay. And what did you -- what happened after that?

A    We were heading on through, like I said, we were

1712

already in the driveway area, and Ted came up.

Q    And did Ted tell you anything concerning Patricia?

A    He had tears in his eyes, and he was just like, "I feel like this is a dream. I don't know what's going on. How can this happen?" And that was the -- pretty much the extent of it.

Q    Now, did you see your parents, did you see your parents at the scene?

A    No, sir.

Q    All right. How long did you remain there at Ted and Patricia's house?

A    Maybe 30, 40 minutes. Not too long. I don't -- I don't like things that stress me out a lot, and it was really bothering me, and I told Ronnie it was way too much going on, that, you know, "Let's head back to mom and dad's house and pick them up," because we knew that everybody was heading back to the South Elm Street Baptist Church. And so, we were going to go back there. We were going to go pick up my parents first and head over there with the family.

Q    All right. And did you go back and pick up your parents?

A    Yes.

Q    And did you go to the South Elm Street Baptist Church?

A    Yes. We went back to my mom and dad's, and they drove

1713

over to South Elm Street Baptist Church and we rode with them.

Q    And how long did you stay there?

A    Oh, probably until like 1:00 or 2:00 o'clock in the morning. It was -- it was real early in the morning.

Q    And what was Ronnie's demeanor during that time?

A    During which part?

Q    Well, during the time from the fire, to the time that you went to the South Elm Street Baptist Church.

A    Oh, he was upset. I mean, he was just like me. I was upset. We was trying to figure out what was going on. I mean, you know, I don't -- seeing a fire, seeing all these personnel -- I mean, we didn't really see the fire, but the house was like, you could tell that it had -- the fire was in there, you know, and they'd already putten (phon.) it out, but it was real dark and just -- you could smell smoke. And I mean, it's just -- not knowing where Trish was and not knowing anything, it just really bothered us and -- I mean, it just upset us both.

Q    Now, when you got to the South Elm Street Baptist Church, did you know at that time that there was a body inside the house?

A    Yes.

Q    All right. And did anyone tell you that it was Patricia's body?

1714

A    We had heard that that's what it was. And I -- you know, I wanted -- I wasn't 100 percent sure. That's what we heard. And, you know, we were just wanting to hear it from more than, you know, one or two sources. But yeah, that's pretty much what we had heard.

Q    All right. Now, after you left the church, what did you do then?

A    We went back -- Let's see. I drove Edna, my mother-in-law's car, and Ronnie rode with me. And my mother and my father -- my mother drove their vehicle, my mom and dad's vehicle. And dad drove Ronnie and -- I think Ronnie and Edna's vehicle, another vehicle, back -- no, excuse me, Ted's vehicle, Ted and Trish's vehicle, back to Ron and Edna's house. Ron and Edna -- not Ron, Edna was really upset, and they didn't think Ted should drive, so, you know, I was wanting -- I didn't have a car, so I was driving Edna's vehicle. Mom, like I said, was driving their own vehicle. And then my dad was driving Ted's vehicle, Ted and Trish's vehicle, to go back to the Kimbles' house, so they wouldn't have to drive, because they didn't think they were in any state to drive.

Q    Now, did Ronnie go back to Camp Lejeune the next day?

A    No, sir.

Q    What happened with respect to that?

A    He called the next morning, to let them know what had

1715

happened, and that he would let them know when he would be back.

Q    And when did Ronnie get permission to come back?

A    I'm not 100 percent sure. I don't think -- I think he went back like the following Sunday or Monday, but I'm not 100 percent sure.

Q    Did there come a time after that when you went to Patricia's funeral?

A    Yes, we did.

Q    All right. Now, Kim, directing your attention back to October the 9th, when you first came home --

A    Yes.

Q    -- from work, and you saw Ronnie, and I believe you indicated that it was around 5:40 p.m.?

A    Uh-huh.

Q    Did you notice anything unusual about Ronnie's demeanor at that time?

A    No. He looked just like he always did. It was kind of warm that day, and he had on jeans. He always wears a cowboy hat when he works. So he had his cowboy hat on, and he had on work boots, and he didn't have a shirt on, but it was laying right there, so --

Q    All right.

A    And he was working on the underpinning.

Q    Did you say anything to him about it -- at that time

1716

about not having done the underpinning?

A    Yeah. I mean, I always pick on him, because, you know, like I said, he's just a procrastinator. I mean, he didn't have a lot of time, because he was there only on weekends, and -- but he always says he's going to get something done. And it seems like it took months, but -- I mean, he eventually gets to it, but that's just -- that was just Ronnie. So that, yeah, I was -- I was like "This doesn't look like it's going to get done today, so --"

Q    Kim, did you smell anything unusual about Ronnie?

A    No. Like I said, I went over there and I hugged him and I kissed him, and I didn't smell a thing.

Q    All right. Now, directing your attention to late January of 1997, did there come a time when you and Ronnie went up to Virginia?

A    Yes.

Q    All right. And what was the purpose of your trip to Virginia?

A    He was actually going to Norfolk, Virginia, to the naval hospital there, to get a sleep test done. And he got permission from the military base for me to go along with him, and they would reimburse us if I had to stay in a motel room, because they didn't think that with him having a sleep problem, that he should be going that distance by himself.

Q    Okay. And what was the nature of Ronnie's sleep

1717

disorder?

A    Like -- Explain.

Q    I mean, what did you observe concerning his sleep problems?

A    I'm a light sleeper, and he would wake me up all the time. He had these weird dreams constantly. One night, he woke -- he woke me up, and he's at the end of the bed growling, and I was like, "What is wrong with you? Wake up." And he just -- he was like, "A wolf was after me." I said, "No, I think you are the wolf." I said, "You're sitting there, growling." And you know, he just had dreams like that. It was just really weird. He would like jerk in his sleep, things like that. So, his sleep pattern weren't that good, so it kept me up a lot.

Q    Now, as far as his duties in the Marine Corps were concerned, how did his sleeping problems affect his duties in the Marine Corps?

A    He just -- I know the reason why they put him in the chaplain's office, because he was in the grunt unit, and in the grunt unit, you -- I don't know the name of the guns, I think it's like M-16's or something, that they would go out in the field and have and stuff, and he couldn't -- he would fall asleep out in the field. And so, they thought it would be dangerous to him. So they put him in the chaplain's office, because they didn't want to harm him or others, just

1718

because he had a sleep -- you know, he was always falling asleep. I mean --

MR. PANOSH: Your Honor, we believe this is beyond her actual knowledge. We'd object, please.

MR. LLOYD: That's all right.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q    Now, Kim, to your knowledge, had Ronnie been evaluated prior to this date for his sleeping problems?

A    He was like evaluated a few times, just briefly, down at Camp Lejeune, but they didn't have a sleep study lab. And if he went to Norfolk prior to that or somewhere else, it was before we got married.

Q    All right. So, as far as you know, he was just evaluated by the Marine Corps doctor down at Camp Lejeune?

A    Yes.

Q    But he had never been to any sort of sleep disorder center?

A    Not since we were married.

Q    All right. And on this occasion in January, what was the purpose of going to Norfolk?

A    For him to have a sleep test done, where they put electrodes on him and watch him while he sleeps.

Q    Okay. And if you recall, Kim, when did you go up for that?

A    I think it was like on Tuesday, the 21st or 22nd of

1719

January.

Q    Okay.

A    I don't have a calendar. I can't --

Q    All right. But regardless of what the date was, your recollection is that it was a Tuesday?

A    Yes.

Q    All right. And what happened when you got to the hospital there?

A    He -- we -- they signed him in. And we hung out for a little while. They were telling him what was going to happen. And they said, "But you can go on and leave --"

MR. PANOSH: We object, please.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q    Okay. Don't say what they said. But he signed in, and after that, what happened?

A    We -- he didn't have to be back till 9:00 that evening - back at the sleep lab. So we went to, I think Holiday Inn, which is right there on the water, to sign -- to get me a room, because I couldn't stay there while he was having the sleep test done.

Q    All right. And did you in fact stay in a room in a motel?

A    Yes.

Q    All right. And how many nights was Ronnie there at the sleep center, being tested?

1720

A    Two, I think. Yeah.

Q    All right.

A    If -- yeah, two.

Q    And was he there during the day, as well, being evaluated?

A    Part of the day. But like I said, he can sleep at any time. And so, you know, they wouldn't wake him until like -- I don't know exactly how it works, but they would only wake him at certain like intervals and phrases and stuff -­phases that he goes through. So, it was like they would wake him like at 9:00 or maybe 10:00, and then he'd go back to sleep like at 12:00 or 1:00 or something like that. It was just that type of test.

Q    All right. Now, after Ronnie's sleep evaluation, what did y'all do then?

A    We -- after we left -- we were heading to Lynchburg, Virginia on Thursday, because he didn't get done till real late Thursday afternoon. We weren't sure if we were going to make it to Lynchburg Thursday.

Q    And did there come a time when you called the Whiddens?

A    Yes. Ronnie did.

Q    All right. And when was that, if you remember?

A    Sometime after -- like I said, he didn't get done with that sleep test till it was like going on 4:00 or 5:00 o'clock that Thursday. And so, he called them somewhere

1721

around there. I remember us getting something to eat, because he was hungry. And he called them somewhere around that time.

Q    Okay. And as a result of that phone call, did you and Ronnie establish plans for Thursday night?

A    Yes.

Q    And what were those plans?

A    To meet them at the school -- well, to meet Mitch at the school, at Liberty University, to have him -- us follow him back to their home.

Q    All right. Now, Kim, what was the purpose of going to Lynchburg and staying with the Whiddens?

A    Ronnie was going to be getting out of the military, and he'd serve four years come April 6th, and he was trying to decide what he wanted to do in life. And he had thought about the ministry, following his dad's footsteps, and he'd been praying about it. And so, he wanted to just go check Liberty University out. So that's -- since, you know, we were already in Virginia and I had time off, we decided to go and do that.

Q    And did you establish plans for spending the night with the Whiddens?

A    Yes.

Q    All right. And what were your feelings on it?

A    I really didn't want to, because I didn't know them.

1722

And I --

MR. PANOSH: We object to feelings, please.

THE COURT: Overruled.

A    I didn't want to, because I didn't know them. And I'm just the kind of person, if I don't know you, I don't really want to stay with you. I'd like to get to know someone first, before I go and stay at someone's home. That's just how I've always been.

Q    But in spite of that, did you agree to --

A    Yes.

Q    -- stay with the Whiddens?

A    Yes. I mean, because we were kind of low on cash. We didn't -- I mean, we wasn't well off, but, you know, we had enough to do us, but we didn't know if we were going to stay one or two nights, so I decided that, yeah, I would stay, you know, I'd get to know them, and if I still felt uncomfortable, maybe the next night we could get a room or something, because like I say, I just didn't know them.

Q    So you had not met the Whiddens prior to this?

A    No, sir.

Q    And did you -- what time did you arrive at the Whiddens'?

A    It was after 10:00.

Q    All right. And what did you do that first night?

A    We kind of introduced ourselves. And, like I say, it

1723

was kind of late, so we -- I could tell the kids seemed like they were tired. They had two children. And they showed us where we were going to sleep. At first, they were going to put their little girl, she has a crib, and they were going to put her in there with us, but she was kind of whiny and crying, so they said, "No. She'll keep you up all night. So we'll just let her stay in here with us."

And Ronnie asked if he could take a shower, because he had had all that glue from the electrodes on him. And they said, "Yeah. Sure." So, you know, he took a shower. They pretty much went on to bed, I went on to bed, and he came on to bed, too.

Q    Now, when you woke up the next morning, what did you do then?

A    We had made plans to go with Mitch to the campus, just to check it out, maybe go to a couple of his classes and see what it was like.

Q    And did you do that?

A    Yes.

Q    All right. And did you go to all of Mitch's classes?

A    No.

Q    What did y'all do?

A    We went to his 8:00 o'clock class for probably an hour and a half. I was bored. And so, I -- he got up, Mitch, Ronnie and I got up. And it was during their break, they

1724

had a break or something. And he was introducing us to everybody. And Dr. Wilmington was supposed to be there that day, teaching, because that was his class, but he was like on some kind of trip or something that he wasn't there. So, I think Rick Buck and someone else spoke. And so, he had introduced us to him and to a lot of his friends that was in that class. And then he went back to -- no, I take that back. Then he showed us around the campus, showed us the church where Dr. Falwell's office was, where the library was, where Dr. Wilmington's office was. And then he headed back to class and -- it was probably around 11:00, and Ronnie and I decided to go get something to eat, because we hadn't had breakfast that morning, so we decided to go away from the campus and grab a bite to eat.

Q    Now, did there come a time, Kim, when you got back up

with Mitch Whidden?

A    Yes. Because we had drove that day, we had drove our vehicle, and he had rode with us. So we went back to the campus to pick him up.

Q    And what did you do after you picked Mitch up?

A    We went back to his apartment.

Q    And when you got back to his apartment, what happened then?

A    We just kind of hung out for a little while. We wanted to get in touch with -- we knew -- we wanted to see Dr.

1725

Wilmington, but we knew we wouldn't be able to see him, because he wasn't there. And so, we wanted to talk to Dr. Falwell. And the reason why we wanted to speak to both of those was because, Dr. Falwell had been to our church before, to dedicate the new sanctuary. I had met Dr. Wilmington through my father-in-law, Ronnie Kimble, Sr. And so, we wanted just, you know, to say "Hey" and then talk to Dr. Falwell about the school itself.

Q    And did there come a time when you went back to the campus?

A    Yes.

Q    All right. Did Mitch go with you then?

A    No.

Q    All right. And what did you do when you got back to the campus?

A    We went to Dr. Falwell's office and stood outside, and-- asked the secretary if -- you know, would he be available just to come out and speak to us for a moment. And within probably 10 or 15 minutes, he came out.

Q    All right. And did you have a conversation with Dr. Falwell then?

A    Yes. And he also gave us a book on Strengthening the  Journey and signed it.

Q    And if you recall, Kim, about what time was this?

A    Probably around 3:00, 3:15, somewhere around there.

1726

Q    And what did you do after that?

A    We headed back to his apartment. It was -- actually, the weather was kind of icy. Because I remember going by Dr. Falwell's vehicle, and I said, "Ooh. He's already getting ice all over his windows." So we wanted to head back. And we had -- I told Ronnie on the way back, I said, "I don't know. Maybe we should just go on and leave tonight," because, you know, I didn't want to -- ice is not something you can just drive on. And so, we -- I had talked to him about it. But, you know, we hadn't made any plans to do that at that time. So we just went on back to the apartment.

Q    So there was not actually ice on the streets at this point?

A    No. It was just falling on the trees and the vehicles.

Q    Now, what time did you get back to the Whiddens'?

A    I don't know. It was probably around 4:00, 4:15, somewhere around there.

Q    All right. And what did you do at that point, Kim?

A    We were debating on -- well, actually she -- Ms. Whidden was talking about how she -- what did we want to do,  did we want to go out to eat, did she want to cook, you know, kind of debating over that. And she wasn't feeling good. She -- I remember her stating she really wasn't feeling good at all. And I said, "Well, then, let's just go

1727

out to eat," you know. "Let's -- y'all pick the place and" you know, "we'll -- it's on us." You know, "You've let us stay in your home," you know. "You don't even know me, and," you know, "you don't even know Ronnie, but Mitch does." And I said, you know, "That's the least we can do." So we decided to go out to eat.

Q    Okay. Now, before you went out to eat, do you recall any phone calls?

A    Yes.

Q    All right. And --

A    Well, actually no. I had called my mother.

Q    Uh-huh.

A    And I wanted to let her know how Ronnie's sleep study went, and to let her know that we were in Lynchburg. My mother and I have a close relationship, so I always kind of keep in contact with her. So I was just calling her to let her know. And I could tell that she -- you can always tell -- because she's got call waiting, you can always tell when she pushed the button, she was on the phone. I said, "Who are you talking to?" And she said, "Well, I'll call you back." And I said, "Who are you talking to?" She said, "Detective Church." And I said, I said, "Well, what's he want?" And she said, "Well, I'll call you back. What's the number?" So I gave her the number and she called me back.

Q      All right. Now, was there a discussion about --

1728

A    No. I had just told Ronnie that. I said, "Well, Mom's going to call back. Detective Church is on the phone, asking her some questions."

Q    Okay.

A    But that was the extent of it, because I didn't know what he was wanting. So she said she'd call back.

Q    And did your mother in fact call back?

A    Yes, she did.

Q    And did you talk to her?

A    I'm sorry?

Q    Did you talk to her?

A    Yes.

Q    Was that -- do you recall, Kim, how long that conversation was?

A    I don't know. Maybe around 15 minutes, maybe. We just really discussed -- I -- you know, like I said, I called her to begin with, to let her know that everything was okay and that we got to Lynchburg okay, and we got -- we didn't really know anything about his sleep study yet, because they didn't get the result. And then I proceeded to ask her "What did Detective Church want?" because, I mean, this was January of '97, and I -- you know, I figured that they had already gotten everything they needed, and we told them that if we knew anything, we'd get in touch with them.

Q    All right. Now, did you --- after your conversation

1729

with your mother, did you carry on a conversation regarding what Detective Church had --

A    It was --

Q    -- talked to your mother about?

A    -- brief. I just got off the phone, and I said that, "Ronnie, Detective Church was just asking more questions." And I know it was just last year, but I can't remember the exact questions he was asking. I said, "I guess," you know, "they're going to keep on bugging us," and that's exactly how I said it, "until they figure out who did this." I said, "But," you know, "I don't blame them," you know. "I'd like to know, too." I said, "But," you know, "we told them and told them that if we knew anything, that we would definitely let them know." Because I had cooperated 100 percent with them, talking to them. So --

Q    Now, did you go out to eat, as planned?

A    Yes, we did.

Q    And do you recall where you went?

A    I don't know the name of it. I just remember them saying that a bunch of people from the school, from his classes, always went there, because it wasn't real expensive and, you know, being students, it was something that most everybody could afford.

Q    All right. And who went when you went out to eat, Kim?

A    Ronnie, myself, Mitch, Debra, and their two children.

1730

Q    All right. And do you recall what the restaurant was like?

A    It was okay. It wasn't nothing fancy. We sat in a large booth, and it was like a buffet type thing, so we would go up and get our food and then come back to the table.

Q    Now, do you recall a conversation at dinner that evening centering around Ronnie's desire or thoughts about going into the ministry and attending Liberty?

A    Yes.

Q    All right. And do you recall Ronnie ever saying anything about having a haunted past?

A    No.

Q    Do you recall Ronnie saying anything about wanting to talk to Mitch in private, without your being present or without Debra Whidden being present?

A    No, because if he had said that, I would have asked him what was he wanting to talk about, where I couldn't hear it.

Q    All right. And do you think if he had made the comment about having a haunted past, do you think that that would have stuck out in your mind?

A    Yeah, definitely.

Q    Do you recall Mrs. Whidden saying anything about -- to Ronnie, "You haven't done anything that any of the rest of us haven't done"?

1731

A    No, I sure don't.

Q    Now, after you finished your meal, who paid for it?

A    Ronnie and I.

Q    And what did y'all do after that?

A    Ronnie and Mitch took the two children and headed to the van. They had a van. And Debra and I walked to Best Products. And they were going to get the van and go around to where the store was. And she and I stopped off, I don't know the name of the store, but it was where they sold shoes, and she was looking at the children's shoes and stuff, because they had like a little sale rack outside and then just a little bit on the inside. And then she said, "Well, we'd better get on over to Best, because the boys are going to be looking for us." So we headed on over there and went to Best Products.

Q    All right. What did you do at Best?

A    Looked around. They were closing, just like the one here, they were closing, and everything was marked down more than, you know -- each week, they were marking stuff down. So we were just kind of looking around, seeing what kind of deals there was. They were looking at a karaoke machine. I think they went back to it two or three times, looking at the karaoke machine, thinking that it would be a good investment for something that has to do with church. And I recall the price, because they were like, "No, it's too

1732

expensive." It was like $100. So they decided against it. And then we went over to the housewares, which consisted of different chairs and stuff. And we purchased an office chair, because we had a desk, we didn't have chairs for it. And then they purchased one, as well.

Q    All right. After you made those purchases, what did you do at that point?

A    We headed back to the apartment.

Q    And if you know, Kim, what time do you think you got back to the apartment?

A    I can give you an approximate. It was probably around 9:00.

Q    All right.

A    I really couldn't tell you. I know it was dark, but --

Q    And what did you do at that point?

A    Ronnie took our chair and put it in our vehicle. And Mitch -- and then we all went back into the apartment. Ronnie and him started, you know, taking the chair out. And Ronnie was going to put it together downstairs. And me and -- Debra and I started playing Nintendo and Game Boys again.

Q    Were the children in bed at this time?

A    No. We had just got home, so they were still downstairs with us.

Q    All right. And if you know, Kim, how long did it take to put together the chair?

1733

A    Maybe 10 minutes.

Q    And what happened after the chair was put together?

A    It's a chair that spins around, so Ronnie was spinning it around. And their little son kind of was like jumping on it, and then Ronnie was spinning him around, and he'd jump off. He was -- he was tired, but he was hyper, in the same sense, so it was just -- you know, he was jumping back and forth on the chair.

Q    All right. And what happened after that?

A    Debra and I kept playing Game Boy and Nintendo, and Ronnie and Mitch said, "We're going to go upstairs and do a Bible study and pray, since you girls don't want to be involved." I guess they could tell, because we were sitting there playing Game Boy. And so, they went on upstairs.

Q    And so, that left you and Debra and the children downstairs?

A    Yes.

Q    All right. Now, do you recall anything with regard to the children?

A    The little boy, like I said, was kind of hyper, and he was going -- running back up and forth to the stairs. And she kept saying, "Mitch, get down here," you know. "Stay down here. Leave the boys alone." So finally he did. And I just recall her doing that, because, like I said, she and I was on the couch playing Game Boy. So --

1734

Q    Now, how long were Mitch and Ronnie upstairs?

A    15 minutes tops.

Q    All right. And when was it -- what were you and Debra doing when they came back downstairs?

A    We were still playing Game Boy. She wasn't feeling good, I can tell you that. She kept telling me, she said, "I just don't feel so good." And I said, "Do you need to lay down or anything?" And she said, "Well, I'll be okay. It's probably just my blood sugar." Because, I mean, she just -- you know, like, she was pregnant, and she said she -- her blood sugar would drop now and then.

Q    And had she -- had Mrs. Whidden laid down before Ronnie and Mitch came downstairs?

A    She had laid down right before they came down the steps. I mean, they probably were coming down the steps as she was laying down.

Q    All right.

A    Because like I said, she -- we were playing Game Boy, and that was right before, I had told her, I said, "Well, do you need to lay down?" And she said, "Well, I'll be okay. It's probably my blood sugar." And then I heard them coming down the steps, and she did. She decided to go ahead and lay down. And she looked kind of white, you know, I could tell. Being in the medical field, I could tell that she was kind of white. So I was kind of glad she was laying down.

1735

I didn't want her to pass out on me.

Q    And when Ronnie and Mitch came down, do you recall them saying anything?

A    Well, I told them, I said "Does she get like this --" I was asking Mitch. I said, "She --" I said, "Look at her." And she was white. And next thing I know, she kind of went out. Her eyes was closed. I was like, "Is she okay?" And I said, "You need to get her a wet rag." I said, "Let's put it on her forehead." And so, I said, "Make sure it's cold." So I think Mitch did do that. Ronnie may have done it. I don't know who got the rag, but somebody got the rag.

Q    And how long did Mrs. Whidden remain like that?

A    She wasn't like that a real long time. But I know when she came to, she just -- she was like a wet noodle. She was just like -- you know, she just felt like she couldn't hardly make it. She didn't look like -- she wasn't able to stand up, more or less walk up steps.

Q    And did Ronnie and Mitch help her up to bed at that time, or was that at a later time?

A    Mitch says, "Well, do you want to go upstairs and go to bed and lay down up there?" And I said, "Well, don't you think you need to take her to a doctor?" I was concerned. I had -- you know, I know they stated it was her blood sugar, but with her being pregnant, I felt like, you know, they should be concerned about her, but the unborn child, as

1736

well. And they said that she just gets like that all the time, that she'd been like that with one of her past pregnancies. And she said she'd be okay, that she had a doctor's appointment on Monday morning. And she said if it gets worse, that she would definitely go.

Q    And so, was it at that time that Ronnie and Mitch helped her upstairs to bed?

A    Uh-huh, pretty much. It was probably five minutes and they just took her on up. She just kind of wanted to lay there for a few more minutes, just -- I don't know, I guess because she just didn't want to move.

Q    Now, when Ronnie and Mitch came downstairs and you first saw Ronnie, was there anything unusual about his demeanor at that time?

A    No.

Q    Did he act strange in any way?

A    No.

Q    And if you remember, Kim, were the children in bed at this time?

A    No.

Q    All right. So, Ronnie and Mitch helped Mrs. Whidden upstairs to bed?

A    Yes.

Q    And was she able to get up the stairs on her own, or was --

1737

A    No. Like I said, she was like a wet noodle. I guess from passing out and her blood sugar dropping so much, that she just couldn't -- she couldn't stand up by herself. So they picked her up off the couch and carried her up the steps to their bedroom.

Q    And did Mitch put the children to bed at that time?

A    I think so. It was -- it was right there afterwards. Because I think we all pretty much went to bed after that.

Q    All right. And when you went to bed, did you notice anything unusual about Ronnie?

A    No. Nothing.

Q    Notice anything unusual about his demeanor at that time?

A    No, sir.

Q    And what happened the next day, with regard to your leaving?

A    The next morning?

Q    The next morning.

A    We decided to get a head start early, because like I said, the night before, the weather wasn't all that great, but it still not had really -- the ice had not formed on the roads yet. It was still somewhat icy. And I knew Ronnie had to go back the next morning to Camp Lejeune. And with his sleep disorder, I really -- you know, I felt like he needed to get a good night's sleep. He had been gone all

1738

week, out of his bed and stuff. Plus, I needed to do some washing and go to the grocery store and things like that. So we were going to leave early.

And I guess it was about 10 minutes till 8:00 when we started to head out. And we go downstairs and Mitch is there, and he says, "Do y'all really have to leave?" And I said, "Well, yeah." I said, you know, "I'd love to stay, but we can't." And he said, "We really wanted you to go to Thomas Road Baptist Church and we wanted -- to Dr. Falwell's church, to see him, since you've never been to the church." I said, "Oh, man, we'd love to." I mean, he and I really wanted to. And I said, "But Ronnie needs to get back." I said, "If he didn't have to be back till Monday," I said," we'd go for it." But with him, with his sleep, you know, problem and stuff, we were like, "No, we'd better go on." Because like I said, he had to leave the next day, on Sunday, to go back to Camp Lejeune.

Q    All right. And how -- if you know, Kim, in terms of -­not necessarily in terms of miles, but in terms of time, how far was the drive from Lynchburg back to Greensboro?

A    Hour and 45 to -- a little over -- an hour and 45 to two hours, something like that. Depending on traffic. And that morning, it was not busy.

Q    And how far would -- in terms of time, would the drive have been from Greensboro to Camp Lejeune?

1739

A    From our house to Camp Lejeune?

Q    Yeah.

A    Three and a half to four hours.

Q    And when did Ronnie have to be back on the base that weekend?

A    I can't remember. Sometimes he had to be back like that evening. Sometimes it wasn't till the very next morning, at 6:00 or 7:00 o'clock in the morning. That weekend, I assume it was Sunday night, but I'm not 100 percent sure. Because I know he'd been -- I know he had been gone for a whole week. And usually when you have that much time off, you have to report, you know, like at night or something like that. So it may have been Sunday evening.

Q    All right. And did you see Mrs. Whidden when you left?

A    No.

Q    Now, Kim, directing your attention to the afternoon when you were at the Whiddens', did there come a time when you watched a tape of Dr. Falwell on television?

A    Yes. Mitch had it. He had it taped. And it was -- he asked if we wanted to watch it, and we said, "Sure." So we -- he popped it in the VCR, and we sat there and watched it.  I don't think we watched the entire thing, but I know we watch at least 30 minutes of it.

Q    All right. Do you recall when during the course of the afternoon that was?

1740

A    It was after we got back from Dr. Fal-- seeing Dr. Falwell.

Q    All right. And what was the mood of the group?

A    We kind of laughed about it. I don't remember the whole thing, but it was talking about pornography and how, you know, he thought every -- what's his name, Flynt, I think, he acted like everything's okay with it and all that. And, you know, Dr. Falwell, he debates pretty good, and he was really debating with him and letting him know exactly what he thinks and what, you know, the Bible states. So we were having a good time with that.

MR. LLOYD: That's all I have, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Mr. Panosh.

CROSS-EXAMINATION by MR. PANOSH:

Q    Ma'am, what did you say your marital status is?

A    We're separated right now.

Q    And is that the extent of your marital status?

A    No. I have filed for divorce.

Q And your testimony before this jury today is that, you are -- on October the 9th of 1995, Ronnie Kimble left early in the morning, and you didn't see him again until 5:40?

A    Correct.

Q    And you have a real good recall of that particular situation and that weekend?

A    The -- I'm sorry. What?

1741

Q    Do you have a good recall of that particular weekend?

A    The weekend prior to her death, that weekend?

Q    October the 6th through October the 9th.

A    Yes.

Q    Okay. Do you remember being interviewed by Detective Pendergrass, Special Agent Pendergrass, on August 4th of 1998? I'm sorry. On July the 31st of 1998?

A    Yes, I do.

Q    And do you remember telling him, beginning the interview by saying that you could not recall the specifics of the weekend of October the 6th of 1995?

A    That is correct.

Q    But today you can recall it?

A    I have recalled it prior to today. My cousin got married that weekend, and it wasn't like a big event. I mean, it wasn't like my wedding, so, of course, I didn't remember it. But I have seen my cousin, and my sister had came up, and my mother and my aunt and my cousin all went to this wedding. And I have seen them prior to that, so it made me remember it. So that's why the weekend came back to me of that particular weekend, what I remember.

Q    So what you're saying then is, when you were interviewed on July the 31st of this year, not even a month ago, you told Agent Pendergrass that you could not recall the specifics of the weekend beginning October 6, 1995?

1742

A    I'm sorry. I don't remember being interviewed on July 31st of this year.

Q    Okay. Are you saying Agent Pendergrass didn't call you on the telephone?

A    Oh, on the phone. Okay. I'm sorry. Yes.

Q    And did you begin that interview by telling him that you could not recall the specifics of the weekend beginning October the 6th of 1995?

A    That's correct. I said that, yes.

Q    So, on July the 31st of this year, less than a month ago, you told him that you could not recall specifics, but today, you can recall every detail of that weekend?

A    That's correct. But a couple weeks ago, I -- like I said, I saw my cousin, I've talked to my mother, my sister has came up, and it brought it back. I mean, I just remembered it. Like I said, it wasn't a big event. I mean, it was just a wedding. But I remember it now. I mean, back then, no, of course not, but now I do. I mean, it was brought to my attention that that wedding was that weekend, and then everything fell into place what had happened.

Q    Okay. I don't think I understand you. You said, back then, of course not, you could (sic) remember it, are you referring to July --

A    Two weeks ago, I remember. Two weeks ago -- or a week -- two weeks ago, my mother and I were discussing it, and

1743

she told me "Do you remember your cousin got married that weekend?"

Q    So, when you talked to the detective -- to Agent Pendergrass on July 31st, you did not remember?

A    No.

Q    But after that, you talked to your mother -­

A    And she --

Q    -- and it all came back to you?

A    Yes.

Q    So --

A    Yes.

Q     -- all those details you've related to the jury today all came back to you after you spoke to Agent Pendergrass, based upon your opportunity to speak with your mother about your cousin's wedding?

A    The only thing I remember telling the jury was about the other details. I haven't really discussed this -- that past weekend.

Q    Oh. You didn't talk about getting up and leaving on October the 9th?

A    Yes, but that's on a Monday.

Q     So, now you're saying that you -- Let me see if I can ask you again. Do you recall telling Agent Pendergrass that you did not recall the details of the weekend beginning October the 6th of 1995?

1744

A    I could not remember the Saturday and Sunday of what we did, especially that Saturday, of what Ronnie and I did when he came in on that Friday evening. But two weeks ago, my mother and I were talking, and she remembered that my cousin got married that weekend, and that's when things started coming back, of what had happened that Saturday and Sunday. I already knew what happened on that Monday, but the Saturday and Sunday, I could not remember, until my mother and I had spoke and she was telling me about my cousin's wedding on that Saturday afternoon.

Q    So you recall the events of Monday, but you didn't recall your events of Saturday and Sunday, prior to October the 9th; is that what you're saying?

A    Correct.

Q    But you do recall them now?

A    Yes.

Q    Okay. Going back to June the 10th of '96, do you remember being interviewed by Detective Church?

A    I don't remember the date, but I remember talking to Detective Church.

Q    Okay. And do you remember him asking you specifically if Ronnie Kimble, your husband, had any friends from the military that might have been home with him that weekend from Camp Lejeune?

A    I remember him asking me that, yes.

1745

Q    And what did you tell him?

A    I'm thinking I told him that I thought Neil Silverthorne was there, which was a friend of his, but then I remember that -- I think he was out on float or something in Cuba or something like that.

Q    In fact, you told him about Silverthorne, but you didn't tell him about Mr. Dobesh, who was the friend who was home with your husband that weekend?

A    That's correct.

Q    And you never mentioned Mr. Dobesh being with your husband on October the 6th?

A    That's correct.

Q    Now, do you recall now when Mr. Dobesh came to your home on October the 6th?

A    Yes, I do.

Q    And do you recall now whether he stayed there?

A    Was that on Friday? I'm sorry.

Q    I believe October the 6th would have been a Friday, yes, ma'am.

A    Yes.

Q    And he stayed there how long?

A    He left on Saturday, because --

Q    Now, why was it that Mr. Dobesh came to your home on Friday and Saturday?

A    That weekend prior to, he had came up with Ronnie. He

1746

was dating a friend of ours, and he came up that weekend prior to. And I recall Ronnie leaving his vehicle at the house that Sunday before they left, and he rode with Dobesh back to Camp Lejeune that week. And then, they came back in together on that Friday afternoon, in Dobesh's vehicle.

Q    So, they both came up Friday night in the same vehicle?

A    Yes.

Q    And he left Saturday morning?

A    Saturday afternoon.

Q    What time was that?

A    I really couldn't tell you. I know that he was still there around lunchtime.

Q    So he made the four-hour trip to stay for a half a day and then turned around and left?

A    Yes. He was wanting to see the girl that he was dating at that time.

Q    My question to you is, he made a four-hour trip, stayed a half a day and left?

A    Yes.

Q    And are you saying that he had to drive up to Greensboro to see that girl?

A    I'm sorry. I couldn't hear you. Someone was coughing.

Q    Are you saying that he drove up to Greensboro to see that girl?

A    Well, that, and he also was bringing Ronnie home.

1747

Q    Can you explain why, in your prior interviews, neither you nor Ronnie Kimble ever mentioned Mr. Dobesh bringing him home on that Friday?

A    Like I said, I had forgotten, but it came back to me two weeks ago.

Q    Okay. So the events of October the 6th in regards to Mr. Dobesh did not come back to you until two weeks ago?

A    That's right.

Q    Is there a particular reason you would have difficulty remembering those events shortly after those events occurred, when you were interviewed?

MR. LLOYD: Well, objection to the phrase "shortly after those events occurred." We're referring to an -­

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. LLOYD: -- interviewing on June the 11th, Your Honor.

Q    Well, you said that you cooperated 100 percent with the Guilford County Sheriff's Department; is that correct?

A    Yes, I did.

Q    Did you at any time after the murder of Patricia Kimble relate the events of October the 6th of 1995 to the Guilford County Sheriff's Department?

A    No, because I could not remember at that time. If I could have remembered, I would have told them. And I told Mr. Pendergrass that when I was on the phone with him two

1748

weeks ago or three weeks ago.

Q    That you couldn't remember?

A    I'm sorry?

Q    That you couldn't remember?

A    Exactly.

Q    Okay. So then, Patricia being killed on the 9th, and the investigation starting on the 9th and going through the next several weeks, during those several weeks right after her death, when you said you were cooperating 100 percent with the sheriff's department, did you ever go and mention the fact that Ronnie Kimble came home with Justin Dobesh on October the 6th?

A    Are you talking about -- I'm sorry. I was -- I'm confused on what you said. I apologize. Could you repeat that?

Q    Yes, ma'am. Patricia Kimble was killed on October the 9th.

A    Correct.

Q    On the week right after that, when the sheriff's department was actively investigating her death, when you said you were participating and cooperating 100 percent, did_ you ever go to them and tell them that Ronnie Kimble had come home with Justin Dobesh on October the 6th?

A    I don't -- I didn't see why that was relevant at that time. I mean, it was just a weekend, and it was an ordinary

1749

weekend for us.

Q    So, first you didn't think it was relevant, and after that, you forgot?

A    Right.

THE COURT: Let me stop you there a minute. What time is your flight, Mr. Hatfield?

MR. HATFIELD: 5:40.

THE COURT: What time do you need to leave here, sir?

MR. HATFIELD: In about five or 10 minutes.

THE COURT: All right, sir. We'll stop in about five minutes.

MR. HATFIELD: Thank you.

Q    Now, you did say that Ronnie Kimble, your husband, and you lived in Swansboro for about six months?

A    Correct.

Q    And then after that, you were living in Greensboro?

A    Yes.

Q    So for approximately three years, he was driving back and forth?

A    Yes.

Q    Did he drive every weekend?

A    Pretty much. Sometimes I went down there.

Q    And that's a four-hour approximate drive each way?

A    Three and a half, four, depending on which way I go.

1750

Q    And you said that he has a sleeping disorder, where he falls asleep?

A    Correct.

Q    But he drove back and forth?

A    Like I said, not every weekend, but some.

Q    Quite frequently?

A    Yes.

Q    Most weekends?

A    Yes.

Q    And in fact, he had the sleeping disorder before you were married; isn't that right?

A    He -- yes, but it wasn't like they -- they were checking it out, but they didn't know that that's what it was at that point.

Q    Would it surprise you to find out that he said in the medical records that he'd had this sleeping disorder all his life?

A    No, it would not surprise me.

Q    And in fact, the reason he was being checked out in 1997 is because he was applying for an early discharge; isn't that right?

A    Yes.

Q    And he was applying for disability; isn't that right?

A    They had looked into it, because the military said that he can't do his job, which his job was being in the grunt

1751

unit. His job wasn't the chaplain's office. That's just where they put him.

Q    But he knew at the time he went into the military that he had a sleeping disorder?

A    But it wasn't that bad.

Q    And he also knew he could get out of the military because of a sleeping disorder?

A    No, he did not know that at that time.

Q    Isn't it a fact that that's how his father got out of the Marine Corps?

A    That his --

MR. LLOYD: Well, object, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. LLOYD: She doesn't know why his father got out of the Marine Corps.

Q    If you know, isn't it a fact that that's how Ronnie Kimble, Sr. got out of the Marine Corps in 1967?

A    I did not know my father-in-law was in the military.

Q    In any event, when he signed up for the Marine Corps, he was well aware of his -- of what you refer to as a sleeping disorder?

A    I'm sorry. Repeat that, please.

Q    When he signed up in the Marine Corps, he was well aware that he had a sleeping disorder?

MR. LLOYD: Well, object, Your Honor. She doesn't

1752

know what he's well aware of or --

THE COURT: Well, sustained.

Q    Were you married to him at that time?

A    When he was in the military? He was in the military before we got married, yes.

Q    Okay. Were you dating him and acquainted with him at the time that he went into the United States Marine Corps?

A    I was -- acquaintance, yeah, we were friends, but I was not dating him.

Q    And you said, I think, that you had been dating him or acquainted with him for approximately 12 years?

A    Yes. We had been friends since -- for 12 years.

Q    Okay. So you knew then about his, what he refers to as a sleeping disorder?

A    No, I did not, because like I said, it never -- it wasn't -- I didn't know it till we get married that, you know, he was having problems at night sleeping and things like that and during the daytime. I wasn't --

Q    When you were dating him or driving around with him as a friend, did he ever tell you about his propensity to fall asleep?

A    No. I mean, when we were dating, we were very young.

Q    Regardless of your age, when you were dating him, or was driving around with him as a friend, did he tell you about his propensity to fall asleep?

1753

A    That's probably --

MR. LLOYD: Objection. Asked and answered, Your Honor. She said no.

THE COURT: Overruled.

You may answer the question.

A    The year before we got married, I remember him saying something about him getting really sleepy at times, but I wouldn't call that a sleep disorder. I mean, if you don't get a lot of sleep, you get sleepy.

Q    Uh-huh. And you said part of it is that he has bad dreams?

A    Well, that is -- that's what I've observed, when I've gone to --

Q    And based upon that --

A    -- bed with him at night.

Q    Excuse me?

A    I said that's what I observed when I went to bed with him at night.

Q    Would it surprise you to find out that all the times he's been evaluated, he doesn't mention the fact that his sleeping disorder includes bad dreams?

A    I recall that when I was with him in Norfolk, Virginia, that was mentioned.

Q    So that would be reflected in the reports?

A    I just know that it was mentioned. I don't know what's

1754

in the reports, I haven't seen them, but I know that that was mentioned.

Q    So you have not seen the results?

A    No.

Q    You don't know --

A    They don't give them to us.

Q    They don't give them to you? They didn't give you the results?

A    No.

Q    They never gave you the results?

A    They may have gave them to Ronnie, but they never gave them to myself.

Q    Well, in fact, you know that he was turned down for his application for early discharge and disability, wasn't he?

A    As far as I know, they were looking into it. I don't think it ever came about.

Q    Did you --

A    They were still looking into it.

Q    Wasn't he turned down because they found there was no sleeping disorder?

A    He was arrested in April, and they were still looking into that, so I couldn't tell you. I do not know.

THE COURT: Going on to another subject?

MR. PANOSH: Do you want me to stop?

THE COURT: If you're getting ready to go to

1755

another subject.

MR. PANOSH: Yes.

THE COURT: You may step down, Ms. Kimble. (The witness left the witness stand.)

THE COURT: Members of the jury, we've made good progress. We're much further ahead than we thought we'd be at this particular point, and I know it's been a long week, and I know you have personal obligations to take care of. Some of the court officials have administrative matters that we need to deal with tomorrow, so we're going to give you tomorrow off, start back fresh on Monday morning. We will start at 9:30 on Monday, rather than 10:00. Does everyone understand that? Is that going to be a problem for anybody?

I hope you have a nice weekend. Please remember the instructions the Court has given you in the jury responsibility sheets. Have a nice weekend, and I'll see you on Monday at 9:30.

(The jury left the courtroom at 4:51 p.m.)

THE COURT: Let me see the attorneys up here on an administrative matter before the recess.

(All three counsel conferred with the Court at the bench.)

THE COURT: You may declare a recess until 9:30 Monday morning, sheriff.

MONDAY, AUGUST 24, 1998

(Court convened at 9:34 a.m. The defendant was present. The jury was not present.)

(Mr. Panosh handed an exhibit to Mr. Lloyd.)

MR. LLOYD: This would be the redacted statement?

MR. PANOSH: Yes. Here you go. Here's the other_ redacted statement.

(Mr. Lloyd handed the exhibits to the Court.)

MR. LLOYD: He has eliminated what I requested.

THE COURT: So there's no problem at the present time?

MR. LLOYD: No problem, Your Honor.

1760

So I just wanted to alert the Court to that.

1761

1762

out.

that alibi concerning Ronnie. Here's what he said in the statement: "I asked again several times if he killed his wife or had anything to do with that, and he would always say that he had an alibi and that his brother also had an alibi. He said that Ronnie's alibi was that he was watching television with his wife and her parents." And then he goes in to describe what Ted told him, that he did have something to do with his wife, and not to ask any more questions about it.

THE COURT: Well, some of that may become relevant if Mr. Kimble testifies and may come out on cross-examination at some point.

MR. LLOYD: Well, if it does, then it comes in, Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right.

THE COURT: Anyone else got any problems today that I should know about or any conflicts that I should know about?

Okay. If the witness would return to the witness stand, please, Ms. Kimble.

(The witness Kimberly Kimble returned to the witness stand.)

THE COURT: Ms. Kimble, the Court will remind you you're still under oath.

You may continue with your examination.

MR. PANOSH: Thank you.

KIMBERLY KIMBLE, having been previously duly sworn, testified as follows during CONTINUED CROSS-EXAMINATION by MR. PANOSH:

Q    Ma'am, I believe on Friday you said that you didn't recall the events of October the 6th until about two weeks ago. Would you relate for the ladies and gentlemen of the jury the events of October the 6th, that is, Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

A Yes. Like you said, two weeks ago, I recalled it, or three weeks ago. My mother and I were talking, and that's why I remembered it, because of the wedding of my cousin.

That Friday, my husband came in with Dobesh, a friend, and they got there that evening around 5:30, 6:00 o'clock on Friday, the 6th. And then I don't really recall what we did that evening, but the next morning, I remember getting up

1765

and doing things around the house, such as washing and stuff. And he did stuff, you know, just piddling around outside. And then sometime after lunch, we -- myself went to a wedding with my mother and my aunt and my cousin and sister. And I don't recall what he did, because, of course, I wasn't there.

I remember Dobesh saying he needed to leave sometime around 2:00 o'clock. He had duty the next day.

Q    And in fact, when you say "he didn't have to go back to the base," you're talking about Ronnie?

A    No. I got home -- I get home around 20 minutes till 6:00, and they were probably there within 30 minutes. It was a real short time.

Q    Is there a reason that you never told the police about that?

1769

wouldn't we be? I mean, it was just -- it was so many emergency personnel. We didn't know exactly what was going on, but we knew the house was on -- had been on fire, so it bothered us, as it did everyone that was there.

1772

you went with him is because he needed someone to drive him?

A    That's what the military had said to him, I guess it was the doctor that was treating him at that time in Camp Lejeune, said that he needed someone to ride with him, since it was a great distance from Camp Lejeune to Norfolk or Portsmouth, Virginia.

Q    Does that indicate that you drove or he drove or –­

A    When we first went, I think we were taking turns and then I drove.

Q    So if he arrived at the testing center and told them that he had driven there without incident, would that be accurate?

A    No. I mean, the only thing is that they just -- he -­they let him sleep a lot, just to watch his pattern.

1775

Q    So his physical condition wouldn't be any different before the test than from after the test, would it?

Q    Was that true?

A    Well, I mean, like I said, we weren't rich, but we wasn't low, low on cash. I mean, we could afford a room that night, either by check or credit card.

1778

A    All I know is -- what he told me was that they were going to extend it, because of his -- they had not figured out -- they were still looking into his sleep disorder.

Q    Ma'am, my question to you is, if he's due to get out anyway, why is he applying for this discharge?

1779

the weather, the roads were icy?

A    Yes, sir.

A    No, sir.

1781

1783

A    She did not say anything. She just told me that she

A    I know that I was at my mother's office one time and he came in.

Q    And when he came to your mother's office, did he interview you?

Q    And your third interview would have been when?

relationship, you discussed everything that goes on in your marriage. Are you saying he could have gone to the sheriff's department and not discussed it with you?

MR. PANOSH: I'm sorry.

getting old, because it seemed like he continuously kept coming back to us. So we were -- I mean, we weren't angry. We were just like, "I wish that they would just leave us alone." We told them that if we knew anything, we would come to them.

Q    So you described the two occasions Detective Church came to you on June the 11th and a time thereafter as continually coming back to you?

Q    So you and Ronnie were upset about the fact that Detective Church was in touch with your mother and your father?

Q    -- that the –­

A    No, not really. I mean, we were just saying that we wish we knew who did this tragic thing. I mean, you know, who doesn't? We want to know who killed Patricia, and that's basically all we said.

MR. LLOYD: Well, objection, Your Honor. It's not

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. LLOYD: -- a proper question.

THE COURT: Sustained.

1792

later.

Q    I thought, ma'am, you said that they were constantly bugging you?

A    Well, it was going to be a project that he was starting that day.

1796

1797

A    No. I'd say they're the same. I mean, he just dreamed, or, you know, he would just jerk his body.

Q    And did you suggest that he see a physician about this?

A    Yes. I was the one who told him he needed to see someone, because I felt like he had a problem. And I was tired of not getting sleep.

he was jerking. But he did snore, but it wasn't that bad.

1800

Q    Let me ask you this. You do agree that in about May, shortly after you were married, he had his first sleep study?

A    Yes.

1801

THE COURT: Sustained.

1803

THE COURT: Additional questions, Mr. Lloyd?