MR. LLOYD: The defense would call Rodney Woodberry.

2401

RODNEY LAMONT WOODBERRY, being first duly sworn, testified as follows during DIRECT EXAMINATION by MR. LLOYD:

Q    Mr. Woodberry, would you state your name for the record, please, sir.

A    Rodney Lamont Woodberry.

Q    All right. Now, Mr. Woodberry, do you know Ted Kimble?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And how is it that you know Ted Kimble?

A    I was employed through him.

Q    And when and where did you work for Ted -- Well, excuse me. Where did you work for Ted Kimble?

A    Lyles Building Material.

Q    All right. And when did you work for Ted Kimble?

A    I'm not for sure when I started, but it might have been like '93. I received two W-2 forms from there, so it might have been like '93.

Q    And when did you stop working for Ted Kimble?

A    Sometime during the summer of '95.

Q    Would it have been sometime in August of 1995?

A    If I can recall to my knowledge, maybe July, August.

Q    All right. Shortly before Patricia Kimble's death?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    How would you describe your relationship to Ted Kimble?

A    Well, he was -- I mean, you know, he was pretty good during then.

2402

Q    Was it just that of an employee and a boss?

A    Well, no. Everybody down there pretty much, you know, got along, joked around, whatever.

Q    So, is it fair to say, Mr. Woodberry, that it was more than -- that your relation to Ted Kimble was more than that of just an employee and a boss?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    In fact, you had been to Ted Kimble and Patricia Kimble's house before, had you not?

A    Yes. On several occasions, a couple employees worked there.

Q    All right. And you had -- you -- and you had been given a key, when you worked at Ted Kimble's house, had you not?

A    Well, no. One time before, me and another employee, we worked out there, we had to paint a building in the back of Ted's and them's house, and weed eat the yard. They were having something that Sunday. And Ted and Patricia wanted us to go out there and paint that building. He gave us a key to the building. Which I think Robert Tidwell had the key, because I didn't have no license or nothing to drive a truck.

Q    All right. Now, had you been invited inside Ted Kimble's house before and eaten with Ted and Patricia?

A    Yes. On several occasions when we work out there,

2403

Patricia would normally cook dinner or make sandwiches for us.

Q    Do you recall, in reference to the -- to the -- my question about the key, Mr. Woodberry, do you recall telling investigators in this case that Ted and Patricia had given you a key to the house?

A    No. Like I said, they gave -- I'm pretty sure he gave the key to Robert, because he gave it to him that -- I think they were going out of town that Friday, and we was supposed to have went out there and painted it that Saturday.

Q    Now, Ted Kimble made a number of calls after Patricia's death, in an effort to locate you, did he not?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And he called over to a woman's -- a woman by the name of Laura Shepard's house; is that right?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Now, who is Laura Shepard?

A    She's an ex-girlfriend of mines.

Q    All right. So at one time, you had a relationship with Laura Shepard?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Would you describe that as a close relationship, Mr. Woodberry?

A    Well, it started off that way.

Q    All right. Did you -- were you two engaged?

2404

A    No, sir.

Q    All right. Did you live together?

A    I stayed at her mother's house.

Q    All right. Now, in regard to your relationship with Ted Kimble, he's -- he had in the past given you money -­

A    Yes.

Q    -- in advance, had he not?

A    Yes, sir. It was a -- I call it a company policy. If any one of -- any one of us wanted to borrow money, they lent us money, and they took it back that Saturday when we got paid.

Q    All right. But Ted Kimble did that with respect to you; is that right?

A    Yeah. Well, all of us.

Q    All right. Now, Mr. Woodberry, you were a suspect in Patricia Kimble's death, were you not?

A    Yes, sir.

MR. PANOSH: Object.

THE COURT: Overruled.

Q    What was your answer, Mr. Kimble -- Mr. Woodberry?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And officers came and interviewed you about the case, didn't they?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And they started asking you questions; is that right?

2405

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Wanted to know where you were on October the 9th, the day Patricia died?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Wanted to know who you were with?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Wanted to know things like how long you had worked at Lyles?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Asked you questions about your relationship with Ted?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    They wanted to know the kinds of questions that I asked you earlier about, was your relationship with Ted just that of an employee and a boss?

A    Yes, to my knowledge.

Q    And they asked you if you worked at Ted's house before?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And they wanted to know how Ted paid you, didn't they?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And they wanted to know why there were so many calls by Ted, trying to get in touch with you?

MR. PANOSH: Object to all these leading questions, please.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Don't lead him, sir.

2406

MR. LLOYD: Well, Your Honor, I would suggest that he is a hostile witness, that under the rules of evidence, I would be allowed to lead him.

THE COURT: Don't lead him.

Q    Did they ask you questions, Mr. Woodberry, about the fact that Ted called you a number of times, around the time of Patricia's death?

A    To my knowledge, I think so.

Q    All right. And did they ask you questions about Ted Kimble calling you, even after you had quit working at Lyles?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And did they ask you questions, Mr. Woodberry, about whether or not you had any contact with Ted Kimble around the time of Patricia's death?

A    I can't recall, but I -- I think that might have came up.

Q    Now, Mr. Woodberry, when the detectives asked you all those questions, you didn't tell them the truth, did you?

A    I just told them what I know. I mean, I might not have been totally, you know, according to them, whatever.

Q    Well, you recall, Mr. Woodberry, in July of this year, that you talked to detectives involved in this case and to Mr. Panosh, and you apologized for not telling them the truth earlier; do you remember doing that?

2407

A    Yes, sir.

Q    So you didn't tell them the truth earlier?

A    Well, like I was saying earlier, not totally.

Q    Now, you gave an affidavit in connection with this case, didn't you?

A    To who?

Q    Well, you gave an affidavit on -- that was signed on March 21st?

A    I had a private investigator working for Ted and them to come and see me, and I think that's what it was.

Q    Now, Mr. Woodberry, I show you what's been marked as Defendant's Exhibit Number 23, and ask you if you recognize that.

(Time was allowed for the witness.)

Q    You can look on the second page, if you need to, Mr. Woodberry.

(Further time was allowed for the witness.)

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Is that the affidavit that you signed in connection with this case on March 21, 1996?

A    I think this is what I signed with the private investigator. I can't remember.

Q    All right. And let me ask you this, Mr. Woodberry. Did you say -- and in doing this affidavit, you swore to tell the truth, did you not?

2408

A    Yes, sir.

Q    All right. And you swore that this affidavit was the truth in front of a notary, didn't you?

A    It was me, my girlfriend and the private investigator in the house.

Q    All right. And this is -- just so we're clear on this, Mr. Woodberry, this is your signature on the back here --

A    Yes, sir.

Q    -- is that correct?

A    As a matter of fact, when he showed me the paper, I just ran through it, you know. I mean, I read it and everything, but I --

Q    All right.

A    -- didn't sit down and try to take no hour or so to look at it.

Q    But he told you to be as accurate as you possibly could, did he not?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    All right. And he encouraged you to make corrections, did he not?

A    I can't recall.

Q    All right.

A    I mean, like I said, I --

Q    Let me ask you this, Mr. Woodberry. On Paragraph Number 9, do you see where part of the typewritten material

2409

has been crossed out, the last part of it, where it says, "and I continued to do some work at the Kimbles' residence, after ending my employment at Lyles Surplus Building Materials"? (Indicated.)

A    Yes. I think I worked out there like once or twice. I even worked at Lyles once after that day.

Q    All right. And you crossed out that last part of the sentence and initialed it with R.L.W. Those are your initials, aren't they?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And you crossed that out? (Indicated.)

A    I can't remember crossing that out. Like I said, I might have, but I can't remember.

Q    You crossed it out because it wasn't a factual statement, it wasn't accurate; is that right, Mr. Woodberry?

A    Well, no, because I still -- like I said, I have worked even at Lyles once or twice. I even worked for Gary once after that.

Q    So --

A    I think it was during that time.

Q    Well, let me ask you this, Mr. Woodberry. In the third paragraph it says, "I am currently employed --" the typewritten word is Bojangles?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And that was crossed out by you, was it not, and you

2410

put Cobb Sign Company?

A    I didn't start at Cobb Sign Company until like in January, I think.

Q    So you're saying, even though it has your initials out here to the side, R.L.W. -- those are your initials?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And that's your handwriting, isn't it?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    All right. So are you saying that the original statement, that you are currently employed, as of March 21, 1996 --

A    During that time, I was at Cobb Sign Company.

Q    You were working at Cobb Sign Company?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    What I'm asking you, Mr. Woodberry, is, didn't you cross out the Bojangles that's typewritten in here, and make-the correction that you were working at Cobb Sign Company? Didn't you do that?

A    Like I said, I might have, but I can't remember.

Q    Well, those are your initials on there, aren't they?

A    Yes, sir. Like I say, I probably -- as far as the crossing, I can't remember that.

Q    All right. But there -- but those were corrections -­even if you didn't make them, those were corrections that somebody made because of what you told them; is that

2411

correct?

A    Must have been. Well, Bojangles was my last job before I started at Cobb.

Q    All right.

A    Uh-huh.

Q    And Mr. Woodberry, there are even a couple of extra paragraphs that are handwritten here; is that right? (Indicated.)

A    Yes, sir.

Q    All right. And they've got your initials right beside Number 23 and Paragraph Number 24; is that right?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And those paragraphs were put in based on the information that you gave the individual at that time; is that right?

A    It must have been.

Q    All right. And that was a -- that was done by you, in an effort to be accurate and fully correct; is that correct?

A    Yes, sir, as far as what I can remember.

Q    Now, let me ask you this, Mr. Woodberry. Did you say on that occasion, in the affidavit, that -- in Paragraph Number 5 -- and you can follow along with me, if you want to -- Paragraph Number 5, "On or around July 7, 1994, I was employed at Lyles Surplus Building Material, 1700 West Lee Street, Greensboro, North Carolina"? Did you make that

2412

statement, Mr. Woodberry?

A    I think so. Like I say, I can't remember exactly when I had -- you know, as far as starting or whatever. But I believe I was still working there during that time.

Q    All right.

A    Because on one occasion before, I had stopped working there. That's when I was living over here. And then -­like I said, I think I worked down there for Gary one day, while Ted was on vacation, and I went and helped Gary for one day. And I might have worked another occasion after that. I can't --

Q    All right. Well, back in March of 1996, when you signed this affidavit, you said that statement was true, didn't you?

A    I guess, to my knowledge.

Q    All right. Well, you signed this piece of paper, this-affidavit, didn't you?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    All right. And you -- the first sentence of the affidavit says, "I Rodney Woodberry, being first duly sworn and deposed, say the following in regard to Ted Kimble and the events of October 9, 1995." So you were swearing that that was true on -- in March of 1995, were you not?

A    That I was employed there?

Q    Yes, sir. The sentence I just read, on Number 5.

2413

A    Well, now, I wasn't employed there in March 1995.

Q    No, sir, not in March of '95.

A    Okay.

Q    That's when you made the affidavit.

A    Oh, okay.

Q    All right? And you said in Paragraph Number 6, "While at work, I developed a friendship with Ted Kimble that continues today"?

A    Yeah. I had became close to the whole family.

Q    All right. Was that statement true?

A    Yes.

Q    All right. "That on or around August 4, 1995, I ended my full-time employment with Lyles Surplus Building Materials"?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Did you make that statement?

A    Yes, sir, as far as to my knowledge, yes, sir, I think so.

Q    All right. Well, it's on that sheet of paper, isn't it?

A    Yeah. That's what I'm saying, as far as my knowledge.

Q    All right. Is it true?

A    Yes.

Q    And Paragraph Number 9, "During my employment at Lyles Surplus Building Materials, I also did work for Ted Kimble

2414

at his residence"?

A    Yes.

Q    All right. Number 10, "While employed at Lyles Surplus Building Materials, I knew Ted and Patricia Kimble on a personal level"?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    All right. Is that statement true?

A    Yes.

Q    Number 11, "I observed Patricia Kimble at Lyles Surplus Building Materials on numerous occasions"?

A    Yes, sir. Patricia would come and have lunch a lot of times.

Q    All right. So that statement's true?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Number 12, "From my observations, the Kimbles appeared to be a happy and loving couple"?

A    I mean, that's the way I seen it.

Q    All right. Is that statement true?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Still stand by that statement?

A    I mean, from what I seen then, my employment there.

Q    All right. Number 13, "I never saw Ted and Patricia Kimble fight or argue with one another." Did you make that statement?

A    Yeah. I never seen them fight. I mean, I seen them

2415

have like little, you know, not what you'd call out cussing arguments or nothing like that.

Q    All right. Is that statement true? Do you still stand by it today?

A    I guess so, because I --

Q    Mr. Woodberry, I ask you if you said in Paragraph 14, "I learned of Patricia Kimble's death by watching television at home"?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Do you still stand by that statement?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And Number 15, "Upon learning of Patricia Kimble's death, I attempted to contact Ted Kimble, but did not reach him until just before the memorial service." Is that statement true?

A    I think that's when I was able to reach him. Because I had called to see -- well, first, I apologized about Patricia, and I wanted to know if he needed anybody to come up and work. I told him that I'd be glad to come up, you know, on the weekends, I think.

Q    All right. Did you reach him before the memorial service?

A    I can't recall. I mean, I had messages that he was trying to get in touch with me, through Laura, through my parents.

2416

Q    So he had called you a number of times before that; is that right?

A    Yeah. That's what Laura Shepard had told me.

Q    So your testimony is that Ted Kimble had called you on a number of occasions prior to your being able to reach him before the memorial service; is that right?

A    Yes, sir. That's what was told to me.

Q    Now, Number 16, "I had never heard Ted Kimble say he wanted or wished harm to come to his wife, Patricia." Did you make that statement, Mr. Woodberry?

A    I can't recall. Like I say, I might have, but I can't recall that.

Q    Well, my question to you, Mr. Woodberry, then is, did you sign this affidavit?

A    Yes, sir, that's my signing.

Q    Did you read over all these statements?

A    Yeah. Like I said, when the guy came, I didn't really -- because mostly we talked. And then, you know, I didn't really take the time out, as far as trying to sit there and

Q    So these corrections that you made earlier, they didn't involve any time; is that what your testimony is, Mr. Woodberry?

A    I don't understand. I mean --

Q    Well --

2417

A    -- what are you saying?

Q    -- did you read that statement that I've just read?

A    Number --

Q    "I have never heard Ted Kimble say he wanted or wished harm to come to his wife, Patricia," did you make that statement?

A    I think so. I can't recall.

Q    Is that statement true, Mr. Woodberry?

A    Well, I mean, I've heard Ted make remarks like, "I hate I got married" or "I wish I was single" or "God, I could kill her" or stuff like that, you know. And then he would always -- I mean, which I wasn't the only one. You know, he would say that in front of me -- it was only three of us employed there, not counting Ted. And then he would always like joke it off, you know.

Q    So your testimony here today is, you heard Ted Kimble say, "God, I wish I could kill her"?

A    No. I'm saying, I done heard him make remarks like, "I hate I married her" or "I hate I got married" or "God, I could strangle her." Like, I recall one incident, Ted had went and purchased some shoes and workout clothes during the morning. He left me, Robert Tidwell and Mike, Mike Wall, because Mike was pretty much in charge. And later on that evening, we got busy, and Patricia came down and she was upset. Well, I think Ted had called her and told her about,

2418

he had bought the sneakers and the other items or whatever. And they were out in the yard and Patricia was crying. And I mean, we didn't know what was going on, till afterwards. And then Ted said that she was upset about him going and spending the money, said they had some kind of agreement that if they spend more than $25 or $50, they'd let the other one know, to that effect, you know.

Q    So Patricia was out on the yard, and she was crying and obviously upset?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And was this when Ted made the comment, "God, I wish I could strangle her"?

A    Well, after Patricia left, he was telling us about like when she was crying, and then he made the comment like, "God, I hate I married her. God, I wish I could strangle her."

Q    And he was upset and he was mad on that occasion; is that right?

A    I mean, I couldn't tell his, you know, full response. Like I said, when he said it, he just walked off.

Q    Well, let me ask you again, Mr. Woodberry. Is this statement true that you made on March of 1996, "I have never heard Ted Kimble say he wanted or wished harm to come to his wife, Patricia"?

A    I -- well, from what I just said, not --

2419

Q    All right.

A    What I just said is the truth.

Q    All right. So it was not true, what you said on March of 1996; is that right?

A    To the private investigator?

Q    Yes. To this signed affidavit that you signed right here.

A    Must not have been.

Q    Well, either it was or it wasn't, Mr. Woodberry.

A    Well --

MR. PANOSH: Your Honor, we object.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MR. PANOSH: They each have a copy. Is there a reason he has to stand there and direct the questions to him?

A    Like I said --

THE COURT: Overruled.

A    -- I -- you know, I can't remember as far as all this.

Q    Mr. Woodberry, let me ask you if back in March of 1996, you made this statement. "I have never heard Ted Kimble discuss or plan to commit a crime."

A    Outside of -- I mean, like I said, when he made those remarks, I didn't consider that to be a crime. I figured he was, you know, upset or something like that, you know.

Q    Well, have you ever heard Ted Kimble discuss a plan to

2420

commit a crime?

A    No, sir.

Q    So your testimony here today is, that that statement's true, that you've never heard him discuss any intention to commit a crime; is that correct?

A    During my employment there?

Q    Yes.

A    No. I heard him make those remarks, but I never heard him, as far as sit down and talk about committing a crime.

Q    Or at any time, Mr. Woodberry, not just the time you worked there.

A    Outside of those remarks.

Q    Let me ask you if this statement is true, Mr. Woodberry. Number 19, "Ted Kimble has not --" Well, let me ask you question -- Paragraph Number 18. Excuse me. I skipped that one. "Ted Kimble has never asked me to participate in any criminal activity"?

A    No, sir.

Q    No, sir, what? Is that statement true?

A    Yes. He never asked me.

Q    All right. Do you stand by that statement that you made in March of 1996?

A    Yes, I stand by that.

Q    Number 19, "Ted Kimble has not and did not ask me to kill or participate in the death of Patricia Kimble"?

2421

A    No, sir.

Q    Did you make that statement --

A    Yes, sir.

Q    -- Mr. Woodberry?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Is that statement true?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    You still stand by that statement today?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Number 20, Mr. Woodberry, "I have seen no indication and I do not believe that Ted Kimble was involved in the death of Patricia Kimble." Did you make that statement?

A    When was this again?

Q    This was on March the 21st of 1996.

A    I think I told the guy that, the guy who I talked to.

Q    All right. And is that statement true?

A    Well, during then, like I was telling him, outside of those remarks that I had heard Ted made, and this and that, you know -- during the time, I couldn't figure, you know, that he would, you know, be involved in something like that. Because like I said, the times I seen him, they pretty much seemed to be, you know, a happy couple.

Q    My question to you, Mr. Woodberry, is that statement true, Number 20? Do you want me to read it --

A    No.

2422

Q    -- for you again?

A    I can.

(Time was allowed for the witness.)

A    I haven't seen -- no, I didn't see no indication.

Q    Let me ask you, Mr. Woodberry -- well, have you -- let me ask you, have you heard of any indications?

A    Have I heard of any?

Q    Uh-huh. Have you heard any indication -- the question -- what you stated on March 21, 1996 reads, "I have seen no indication and I do not believe that Ted Kimble was involved in the death of Patricia Kimble."

A    During then, I might have said that, yes.

Q    All right. And is that statement true?

A    During then, it was.

Q    All right. And with regard to question -- Paragraph 21, "I have no information about the death of Patricia Kimble, except what was --" "for what has been broadcast on television"?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Is that statement true?

A    Yes, during then.

Q    All right. And let me ask you this, Mr. Woodberry. Number 23, directing your attention to the handwritten items, Paragraph Number 23, did you say, on March 6, 1996 -­March the 21st, "On the day of Patricia Kimble's death,

2423

October 9, 1995, I was at my residence in Graham --"

A    Yes.

Q     "-- 711 Oakley Street"?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Did you say that?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Is that statement true?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And Number 24, Mr. Woodberry, "At approximately 6:30 p.m., I went to Carolina Careers on Maple Avenue to fill out a job application"?

A    Uh-huh.

Q    Is that statement true?

A    Yes, sir. I couldn't be for sure about the time, because Carolina Temporary closes like 8:00. And I think prior to that, earlier that day, I had been calling up there, and they said you have to come in and put an application in. But they did have a couple of job openings. So I didn't have no transportation during that time, and I told the lady that my girlfriend was at work, and maybe I could come later on this evening, I get a ride up there. So _ she told me to be up there before 8:00 o'clock. I think my girlfriend's sister had took me up there sometime between 7:00 and 7:30. I didn't have my Social Security card, so the girl who waited on me, she told me that, what we'll do

2424

is, go ahead and start filling out the application. And she sent Barbara back to our residence, to get my Social Security card.

Q    So is your testimony, Mr. Woodberry, that it was somewhere around 7:00 or 7:30 p.m. that night --

A    Yes, sir.

Q    -- that you filled out your job application?

A    I think so.

Q    So it was not 6:30 p.m., as you stated on your affidavit, was it?

A    Well, I know it was late during the evening, because like I said, they close at 8:00. And if I'm for sure, I think her sister might have got there sometime 7:00, might have been a little after 7:00.

Q    So is your testimony, Mr. Woodberry, that it was sometime after 7:00 o'clock?

A    I can't be definite, but I'm pretty sure it was, because like I said --

Q    And the --

A    -- the lady was like telling me that if I send them to get the Social Security card, that way, by the time they get back, we'll have enough time, we'll be able to complete the application, and she won't have to take nothing but my Social Security number, before they close.

Q    So it was shortly before 8:00 o'clock when they closed;

2425

is that right?

A    I think they -- well, they closed at 8:00 during then.

Q    All right. So there was enough of a problem, in terms of them closing, that you were concerned about them actually closing before you got the application filled out; is that correct?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    So all you really know, as far as that's concerned, Mr. Woodberry, is that it was before 8:00 o'clock; is that right?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Now, Mr. Woodberry, I believe you've indicated earlier that you do know a woman by the name of Laura Shepard; is that right?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Do you recall her going to your house in April of 1996?

A    Going to my house?

Q    Yes, sir.

A    No, sir.

Q    Excuse me. Do you recall going over to her house in April of 1996?

A    I can't recall, but I did go over Laura's house a couple times after that. I was close to her family.

Q    All right. Now, on this occasion in April of 1996, Mr. Woodberry, would this have been after you two had broken up?

2426

A    Yes, sir.

Q    So you would no longer have been boyfriend and girlfriend?

A    No, sir.

Q    Though you knew each other at this time?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Well, let me ask it again. Do you recall going over there and staying at her house -- and this would have been in Greensboro; is that correct?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    All right. Around April the 4th?

A    I can't remember the dates. Like I said, I did go over Laura's house probably three or four times.

Q    All right. Do you recall asking Laura if you could spend the night over at her house?

A    No, sir, I don't recall asking her if I could stay the night. I have stayed the night there on occasion.

Q    All right. Do you recall sleeping on the couch?

A    No, sir.

Q    Do you recall waking up -- waking Laura up 5:00 in the morning, when you were upset?

A    No, sir.

Q    Do you recall her coming in there and asking you why you were crying?

A    No, sir.

2427

Q    Do you recall telling her -- or asking her if she would come to visit you in prison? Do you remember making that statement to her?

A    No, sir.

Q    Do you remember making the statement to her on that occasion, Mr. Woodberry, while you were upset and crying, that you had done something terrible that you might receive the death penalty for?

A    No. I recall I never made no statement like that to her.

Q    And do you recall, after her response, that you told her that even if you were in prison, you would be coming into some money and you would be able to supply her with money, if she were willing to come visit you in prison?

A    No, sir. The only time I ever told Laura, as far as money is concerned, is that when I get my income tax back, that I probably get me an apartment, and that was it. But I never told her anything to that knowledge.

Q    So if Laura Shepard were to come in court and state that you told her those things, she would not be telling the truth?

A    No, sir.

Q    Let me ask you this, Mr. Woodberry. Do you deny that you were at Laura's house on that occasion?

A    No, because like I said, I have went over there, but

2428

I'm not for sure about the dates that I have been over there. I went and visited one night, me, her mother and a neighbor of theirs. And during that time, Laura wasn't in there. I think she was taking a bath or taking her kids a bath or whatever. And me and her mother done sat there and talked, and then Laura came in. And if I'm for sure, I went to my mama's house that night. Because a lot of times, even before we break up -- you know, before we broke up, if I was over at Laura's house, I'd call a taxi late that night, unless her mother decided to take me home.

Q    So is it your testimony, Mr. Woodberry, that you did not spend the night at Laura Shepard's house anytime early in April?

A    Like I say, I can't recall staying the night. I might have. Because I did stay there on several occasions before we broke up. And I might have stayed there once or twice after we broke up.

Q    Well, do you recall being upset?

A    No, sir.

Q    Crying early -- in the early morning hours?

A    No, sir.

MR. LLOYD: If I could have just a moment, Your Honor.

(Mr. Lloyd and Mr. Hatfield conferred.)

Q    Now, Mr. Woodberry, do you recall giving a statement to

2429

Detective Church in early June of 1996?

A    I may have. I talked to Mr. Church on several occasions.

Q    All right. Do you recall telling Detective Church on that occasion that you remembered Ted telling you last summer that he wished he had a hit man? Do you remember making that statement?

A    Like I said, I remember him making statements to that effect. I wasn't the only one that he made some of these statements.

Q    Well, that statement was made in reference to whom, Mr. Woodberry?

A    He just said, "I wished I had a hit man." And then he said, "Rodney, you know somebody need a lot of money?" And then he'll laugh it off. He even said one time before, "Rodney, you could use a lot of money, couldn't you?" just laughed it off.

Q    Now, Mr. Woodberry, do you recall telling Detective Church on that occasion, that same occasion, that you had nothing to do with Patricia's death, and would cooperate in any way to clear yourself? Do you remember --

A    Yes, sir.

Q    -- saying that?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And do you recall telling Detective Church that you

2430

were going to the SBI to clear yourself? Do you remember saying that?

A    Not to that effect, but I did go to the SBI.

Q    All right.

A    I mean, I'm not for sure about the exact words, you know.

MR. LLOYD: That's all I have, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Mr. Panosh, any questions?

MR. PANOSH: Yes, sir.

CROSS-EXAMINATION by MR. PANOSH:

Q    You were asked if Laura Shepard said that, it would not be the truth. What do you know about her truthfulness?

A    Excuse me, Mr. Panosh?

Q    What do you know about Laura Shepard's truthfulness?

A    It's not worth a bubble.

Q    What do you mean?

MR. LLOYD: Well --

A    I've had --

MR. LLOYD: -- objection, Your Honor. There's a proper way to do this and an improper way to do this, and this is not the proper way to do that.

THE COURT: I'm not sure what he said.

A    I've had several bad occasions with Laura. During my un-- I mean, during my --

MR. LLOYD: Object, Your Honor.

2431

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q    All right. You were asked by the defendant's counsel if Laura Shepard said that you said those things, would that be the truth, and you said no. What do you know about Laura Shepard's truthfulness?

MR. LLOYD: Well, Your Honor, if I may be heard just briefly. The rule states that he's allowed to give his opinion on anybody's veracity, but it's limited to his opinion.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q    Do you have an opinion about her truthfulness, about Laura Shepard's truthfulness?

A    Anything she tell me, I would have to see it myself.

Q    So the answer then is, you do have an opinion?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And what would that opinion be?

A    When it comes to Laura, as far as the truth, it's very low on my pole.

Q    Now, what was your relationship with Laura Shepard?

A    Well, like I said -- I met her through my brother. As a matter of fact, it was like a blind date. He worked with Laura at K-mart, and he was telling me he knew a friend of his, said that she was single, you know, she's a nice girl. I said, "Sure, I'll meet her." The first time I met Laura, she supposedly came to my mama's house that night. And she

2432

caught a taxicab. I remember that. Me and about three more guys was sitting in the house, drinking beer. And when she came, I met her. I took her out to a club. We talked. We got to know each other.

MR. LLOYD: Well, Your Honor, I question the relevance of this, how they met and all this other stuff.

THE COURT: Overruled at this point.

A    And after that, we just started what you would call going together.

Q    Did there come a time when the going together wasn't so smooth?

A    Yes, plenty of times.

Q    Tell about that, please.

A    Well, during my unemploy-- during my employment at Lyles, on several occasions, Laura would call, call, call. I recall plenty of times Ted or either Patricia or whoever was down there during the time, they even stopped her from calling one time, because she would always constantly call. And she would make up these wild stories about --

MR. LLOYD: Well, objection to this, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Overruled.

A    She would make up these wild stories about being pregnant, I mean, to the point where she went as far as, to my knowledge, having a baby shower. And the girl wasn't even pregnant. Her own family even told me that --

2433

THE COURT: Well, sustained as to that.

MR. LLOYD: Well, objection.

THE COURT: Sustained.

THE WITNESS: I'm sorry.

Q    Based upon these occurrences, did there come a time when you ended the relationship or tried to end the relationship?

A    Plenty of times.

Q    What, if anything, happened?

A    Laura would go into this crazy stage or --

MR. LLOYD: Well, objection.

THE COURT: Overruled.

A    I mean, on several occasions, I would even tell Laura, face to face --

MR. LLOYD: Well, objection to what he told Laura.

THE COURT: Overruled.

Proceed.

A    -- that it was over, it just wasn't working out. And Laura was the type, she would call, she would threaten, she would say things to people, just like the pregnancy, you know. I mean, she had me going to the doctor with her.

Q    Did she ever indicate to you that she -- or let me try that again. Did there come a time when you found a new girlfriend?

A    Yes, sir.

2434

Q    Who was that?

A    Beverly Jeffers.

Q    And did there ever come a time when she showed you or indicated to you that she was jealous of Ms. Jones (sic)?

A    On several occasions.

Q    Would you describe that, please.

A    Well, one incident was, Laura knew I was seeing Beverly. I made it clear to her. And like I said, I was close to her family. I even still went over there. But during the time when I had told her about Beverly, she went into this rage about what she would do to me, and this and that. One night, I tried to leave, I had my bags, and I was walking down the street. Laura followed me, she chased me. I even ran, trying to get away from her. She cried. And Beverly picked me up. When I got in the car with Beverly, we were in the process of pulling off, and Laura chased the car.

Then on several occasions, she would call my mama and make comments to the effect that "I'm going to kill your son. I can't stand it."

MR. LLOYD: Well, objection to --

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. LLOYD: -- this, Your Honor.

Q    Who is your mother?

A    Peggy Millen, maiden name is Woodberry.

2435

Q    Who is Sara Haith?

A    She's the girl who lived next door to Beverly on 711 Oakley Street. I met her through Beverly.

Q    And where were you -- specifically where were you on October the 9th of 1995, in the afternoon and evening hours?

A    Well, to begin, the morning, I baby-sitted for Beverly, because she's working at McDonald's during that time. And like I --

Q    Where was that, sir?

A    711 Oakley Street, Graham. And I wasn't employed during the time. But I was -- like I said, that day, I had been calling to these places, and I had called Carolina Temporary. So, to my knowledge, I believe Beverly had got home 1:00, sometime between that. But during this time, me and Sara, we had been sitting over there talking, because we always used her telephone.

Q    You and who were?

A    Sara, Sara Haith.

Q    And why were you at Sara Haith's house during that period of time?

A    Well, she was at our house that morning, but I had been back and forth, using the telephone. Me and her had been sitting around my house talking -- or around Beverly's house.

Q    And you were using the telephone for what?

2436

A    Calling about a job. I think that's where I called Carolina Temporary from.

Q    And approximately what time did you say Beverly got home?

A    During that time, I think she's working till like 1:00 o'clock, to my knowledge. I think she's working till like 1:00 o'clock in the evening.

Q    Where were you from 1:00 o'clock in the afternoon of October the 9th on?

A    Me, Beverly and Sara had sat around, talked. And I called Beverly's sister's and asked her would she take me to Carolina Temporary ‑

Q    Why didn't --

A    -- because I --

Q    Why didn't you drive there yourself?

A    Well, we had -- Beverly had a car, but prior to this -- she was taking me to Lexington, North Carolina, to get my daughter, and her car had broke down in Lexington. Her motor was already bad, and it gave out on us, so we had to get a ride from Lexington to Greensboro, from Greensboro back to Burlington. And I had her car towed by my stepfather, sometime late October, may have been November, towed back to Burlington, placed in Beverly's driveway.

Q    So on October the 9th, was the vehicle there?

A    Yeah, I think she still had it in the driveway, because

2437

we was trying to get a motor for it. But everywhere she called, they either didn't have no motor or it cost too much.

Q    Did you have a driver's license at that time?

A    No, sir.

Q    Now, as Mr. --

MR. PANOSH: Madam Clerk, do you know my last number?

THE CLERK: I think it was 146.

MR. PANOSH: Okay. Thank you.

THE COURT: Mr. Panosh, how long are you going to be with the witness?

MR. PANOSH: 15, 20 minutes.

THE COURT: Well, we'll need to break then. You may stand down, sir.

(The witness left the witness stand.)

THE COURT: As I indicated, members of the jury, we'll need to be recessing at 3:00 o'clock this afternoon. I need to leave at this point.

Please remember the Court's instructions. Do not discuss the case. Do not read or watch any news accounts. Remember the instructions you've signed on the jury responsibility sheet.

Have a nice evening. I'll see you in the morning at 9:30, 9:30 in the morning.

2438

(The jury left the courtroom at 2:59 p.m.)

THE COURT: Let me see the attorneys at the bench about an administrative matter, please.

(All three counsel conferred with the Court at the bench.)

THE COURT: Okay. You may declare a recess until 9:30 in the morning, sheriff.

(A recess was taken at 3:03 p.m. until Thursday, August 27, 1998.)

2442

THURSDAY, AUGUST 27, 1998

(Court convened at 9:33 a.m. The defendant was present. The jury was not present.)

THE COURT: Any matters we need to take care of before we bring the jury in?

MR. LLOYD: No, Your Honor.

MR. PANOSH: No, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Mr. Woodberry, if you'll come back to the witness stand, please.

(The witness Rodney Lamont Woodberry returned to the witness stand.)

(The jury entered the courtroom at 9:34 a.m.)

THE COURT: I'm pleased to have the panel back. hope each of you had a nice evening and feeling okay. I

think I rode up with three of the jurors this morning. They  were in good spirits and refreshed. Anyone having any

problem this morning?

Okay. You may continue with examination of the witness, Mr. Panosh,

MR. PANOSH: Thank you.

RODNEY LAMONT WOODBERRY, having been previously duly sworn, testified as follows during CONTINUED CROSS-EXAMINATION by MR. PANOSH:

Q    Mr. Woodberry, during direct examination, you said that you had made a subsequent statement, and I believe in your

2443

answers, you said that you apologized for not providing certain information prior to that date. Do you remember that statement?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    I show you now 147. Would you take a look at that, please.

(Time was allowed for the witness.)

Q    Is 147 a two-page document? Are there two pages there, sir?

A    Yeah.

Q    And on the second page, do you recognize your signature?

A     Yes, sir.

Q    And do you remember making that statement --

A    Yes, sir.

Q     -- on Friday, July 17th of 1998?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And on the second page, there are some penciled-in corrections. Do you remember that?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And would you read those corrections, just to yourself, please.

(Time was allowed for the witness.)

Q    Are those corrections information you provided?

A    Yes, sir.

2444

Q    Now, have you had a chance to review that document yesterday?

A    Yes, sir, I seen it.

Q    Did you read it word for word?

A    Yes.

Q    Is the information in there accurate?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury the circumstances of your making that second statement, State's Exhibit 147.

A    Could you repeat that.

Q    Okay. Let me ask you again. Do you remember speaking to Detective Church on that day, July 17th, this gentleman here? (Indicated.)

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And where did that interview occur?   

A    On the fourth floor, District Attorney's Office.

Q    Tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what you said to Detective Church on that day.

A    I mean, read this, or just tell them about the interview or what?

Q    Whatever -- however you want to answer the question, sir.

A    Well, I told Mr. Church about certain statements that Ted had made to me, prior to Patricia's death. And Ted had

2445

continuously tried to get in touch with me. I figured it was to come back to work or whatever. Until he finally did. And when he did get in touch with me, it was at Laura's house, Laura Shepard, my ex-girlfriend. We went outside and we talked for a while.

Q    Now, sir, do you remember if this was before or after Patricia's death?

A    After Patricia's death.

Q    Do you remember how soon after Patricia's death?

A    Maybe late October, right at November. I can't be for sure about the date. But I was at Laura's house visiting, and Ted showed up, and he came to the door. And I don't know if he knew I was there or what, but he asked me to come outside, which I did, and we talked. He told me that they would probably be talking to me and maybe a couple more guys who work with us.

Q    Who is "they"?

A    The detectives.

Q    Go ahead.

A    And he told me that I shouldn't say anything to them about the statements he had made to me -- you got to excuse my voice -- the statements he had made to me about Patricia, or the statements which I said yesterday. And he went on into details, telling me about some rifle he had purchased, and how he could stand back so many yards and shoot a

2446

person, without them even knowing it or -- I mean, he just went into details about this rifle.

And then the conversation changed, that he told me that if they ever asked me if I knew little Ronnie, that I shouldn't tell them -- you know, that I didn't know little Ronnie. Which I had worked with Ronnie previous a time. And things to that matter.

And he was very persistent about this rifle thing, and I don't know why. And like I said, it just got me shook up, you know. And which Laura -- I think Laura came outside during that time, and he had ended the conversation and started talking about other things, such as -- we supposedly did a porch or something for Laura and them before, and we never got a chance to do the porch. And I had put a door up on Laura's and them's house, which the door was purchased from down Ted's. And we talked about that, and we talked about fixing the porch, and that was it, while Laura was outside.

Q    All right. Drawing your attention to that portion of your conversation that had to do with Ronnie, I didn't understand. What did he say about Ronnie?

A    He just told me that if anyone ever asked me did I know little Ronnie, that I shouldn't -- you know, I shouldn't say anything or I should just tell them no. But I had worked with Ronnie, you know, plenty of times before that, so I

2447

couldn't --

Q    When you say "little Ronnie," what do you mean?

A    His brother.

Q    Okay. And --

A    I mean, that's what we normally call him, little Ronnie.

Q    When you say "we normally call him," what -- who are you talking about?

A    Around the shop.

Q    And is that because his father's name is also Ronnie?

A    I guess. That's what I figured.

Q    Now, did Ted tell you anything more about his part in the death of Patricia?

A    Well, he -- before Laura had came out, it was like he said -- it was as though Ted knew that I was over there.  don't know if Laura had called him and told him or what.

But anyway, he told me, he said, "Well, you know certain things that I have said about hating my wife or I wish I wasn't married." He said, "You shouldn't tell them none of that stuff." And I asked him, I said, "Well, why?" And he said, "Well, they're not going to believe you anyway, because you're black." And like I said, I was pretty shook up, you know.

And when Laura did come out, the conversation changed, you know, and. we stood out there maybe a couple more minutes

2448

and talked, until Ted left.

Q    Did he talk to you about the insurance money?

A    Well, he mentioned something about that Detective Church and -- well, he said, the detectives, which Mr. Church's name was mentioned, were trying to stop him from getting his insurance money, but he was going to get it anyway. And talked about how he was going to expand his business and things of that nature.

Q    Did he indicate to you whether he had signed Patricia's name to an insurance application?

A    Yes, sir, he mentioned it. I don't know why he would tell me about that, but he did say, you know, that he had falsified Patricia's name on an insurance policy. And I guess that was why they was trying to stop him from getting his money or whatever.

Q    Did he tell you whether or not he had something to do with Patricia's murder?

A    He pretty much came out and said, "Well, I think you know that I got something to do with Patricia's murder." I guess -- I don't know if it's because these statements he had made to me or, you know, whatever. Like I said, when he went into details and he started talking about this rifle and things of that nature, it just --

Q    Did he ever mention any specific detectives?

A    Mr. Church.

2449

Q    Up to that time, had you met Detective Church?

A    I think I had. I didn't tell him that I had talked to Mr. Church.

Q    Now, you indicated that Ted kept contacting Laura, to catch up to you. Do you know why that was going on?

A    Well, like I said, when I -- I've talked to Laura a couple of times even before Patricia's death, and she would tell me plenty of times, and my mother would, too, "Well, Ted called you. Ted called you." And I think she even told me one time Mr. Kimble had called me about coming to work or something to that nature.

Q    At that time, were you giving Laura your address, your new address?

A    No, sir. Nobody knew where I was staying but my mother.

Q    Why was that, sir?

A    I didn't feel like I should give Laura Beverly's address.

Q    Was that because of the domestic problems you were having with Laura?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And even though you were having domestic problems, you said you went back to visit her. Would you explain that.

A    Yes. Like I said, our families became close, and me and her mother, we was pretty close at one time or another.

2450

And I could go over there and visit them, go over there and sit around or whatever, you know, regardless if me and Laura was talking or not.

Q    And when you say regardless of whether you and Laura were talking, you mean whether you were having a romantic relation?

A    Yes. I didn't necessarily have to be on good terms with Laura, in order to go over to her house.

Q    Now, there were times you spoke to Detective Church and didn't mention this information; is that correct?

A    Yes, sir,

Q    Would you explain that to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury, please.

A    Well, like I said, after -- after I had talked to Ted the last time and -- I was pretty much scared, I mean, due to all honesty. It was like, when he brought this rifle thing up, it was like he was trying to make a point to me. He didn't ask me not to talk to the detectives, he practically told me not to talk to the detectives. And like I said, it just scared me so.

(Mr. Panosh showed exhibits to Mr. Lloyd and Mr. Hatfield.)

Q    Do you recall who the first detective was that you spoke to in reference to this case? Let me ask you this. Do you remember talking to Detective Byrd?

A    Yes.

2451

Q    And do you remember what date that was?

A    I can't remember the date, but it might have been -­

MR. PANOSH: May I approach the witness?

A    -- it might have been November.

THE COURT: Yes.

A    I know I was working during that time.

Q    Okay. If I show you your statement to Detective Byrd, will that refresh your memory?

(Time was allowed for the witness.)

Q    Was it January the 8th, sir?

A    Yes.

Q    And where were you working at that time? (Indicated.)

A    It's got Bojangles on there.

Q     All right. And in fact, he came to you to confirm certain information that you had given to Detective Church; is that right?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    So, before you talked to Detective Byrd, you talked to Detective Church?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Do you remember when that was, sir?

A    No, sir, I can't -- I can't recall the date.

Q    Do you remember if Detective Church was with Detective Byrd that day?

A    I think so. To my knowledge, I believe so.

2452

Q    So the first interview that you recall is that one with Detective Church and Detective Byrd?

A    Yeah, that's -- that's the one I recall.

MR. PANOSH: No further questions. Thank you, sir.

THE COURT: Any additional questions --

MR. LLOYD: Yes, sir, Your Honor.

THE COURT: -- Mr. Lloyd?

Before you get into that, members of the jury, the Court again cautions you and admonishes you that this testimony of statements that Ted Kimble may have made would not be admissible and must not be considered against Ronnie Kimble, unless you find there was an agreement to commit an unlawful act and that this defendant intended to participate in that unlawful act.

MR. LLOYD: Thank you, Your Honor.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION by MR. LLOYD:

Q    Now, Mr. Woodberry, Mr. Panosh referred to a statement that you had made up in the fourth floor, right above this floor, in the District Attorney's Office; is that right?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Now, who was present at that time, Mr. Woodberry?

A    I believe Mr. Panosh, myself and Detective Church.

Q    All right. And that statement was just a short time ago, wasn't it?

2453

A    Yes, sir.

Q    As a matter of fact, you gave that statement on July the 17th of this year?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Just before this trial started on August the 3rd; is that right?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And you told Mr. Panosh and Mr. Church at that time some things that you had never told them before, or never told Detective Church before; is that right?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    All right. And Detective Church had talked to you a great many times before this, hadn't he?

A    Yes, a couple times.

Q    All right. As a matter of fact, your association with Detective Church was so extensive that at one time, you agreed to call Ted Kimble up on a telephone that was wired for a tape recorder, is that right, and record the conversation?

A    I recall that.

Q    All right. So you did that, didn't you, Mr. Woodberry?_

A    Yes, sir.

Q    So at that point, you had cooperated with Detective Church and the other officers in this case, to the point where you actually called Ted Kimble, and the conversation

2454

was recorded with Detective Church there; is that right?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    All right. And at that time, you didn't tell Detective Church these things that you told on July the 17th and you've now testified in court; is that right?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And your testimony here today is -- Well, let me ask you this, Mr. Woodberry. This conversation that you've told the jury about today, that you had with Ted Kimble, when did that take place?

A    Like I said, I was over Laura's house, and I thought for sure it was like maybe in November, end of October, sometime like that.

Q    All right. End of October of 1995, so it would have been within a. month of Patricia's death; is that right?

A    Yes, or a little after.

Q    All right. And you said that Ted came out and admitted to you at this time that he had something to do with Patricia's death; was that your testimony on -- when Mr. Panosh was asking you questions?

A    Yes, sir. I mean, to my knowledge, that's the way I took it.

Q    All right. Now, do you recall me asking you questions about the affidavit that you made in this case?

A    Yes.

2455

Q    Do you remember that, Mr. Woodberry, yesterday?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And you remember when I asked you, "I have never heard --" well, when I asked you, "I have seen no indication, and I do not believe that Ted Kimble was involved in the death of Patricia Kimble," I asked you if you made that statement, when you gave the affidavit. Do you remember that?

A    Yes, I think so.

Q    All right. And I asked you if that was still true, if you still stood by that statement, and I'm asking you now, Mr. Woodberry, didn't you tell me yesterday that you still stood by that statement?

A    I think I told you that yesterday, yes.

Q    All right. Is that statement true?

A    Which one, this, or the one that you told me about the affidavit?

Q    The one in the affidavit, "I have seen no indication and do not believe that Ted Kimble was involved in the death of Patricia Kimble." Do you still stand by that statement? Is that what you're saying now, Mr. Woodberry?

A    During that time when I made that statement, I felt I did.

Q    So what you're telling this jury today is, when you made this statement on March 21, 1996, that you felt like that statement was true then?

2456

A    Well, like I said, I was -- I was scared. I don't know what -- I was just scared.

Q    Well, I'm not asking you about your state of mind, Mr. Woodberry. I'm asking you about -- I thought you just told me that you considered at the time that you made that statement that it was true, in March of 1996?

A    So what are you asking me now?

Q    Are you -‑

A    I mean, do I --

Q    Well, let me ask you another question, Mr. Woodberry. Do you still stand by that statement today? Because that's what I thought you told me yesterday, told this jury yesterday --

A    Well -‑

Q    -- when I asked you about that.

A    No, I don't.

Q    So now your testimony is, you don't stand by that statement, after Mr. Panosh brought out the statements that you made in his office on July the 17th; is that correct?

A    I guess so.

Q    So what you said yesterday to the jury, when I asked you about it, you said that you still stood by it then, was not true; is that correct?

MR. PANOSH: Objection. The jury can recall what he said.

2457

THE COURT: Overruled.

A    I mean, I guess so. Like I said, it's been one paper signing after another, you know, so -‑

Q    Well, let me try to make it a little simpler for you, Mr. Woodberry. When you gave this statement in the affidavit, on March 21, 1996, did you consider that statement that you made then, "I have seen no indication and do not believe that Ted Kimble was involved in the death of Patricia Kimble," when you signed this affidavit and swore to tell the truth and swore that was the truth --

MR. PANOSH: Well, we object, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Overruled.

Q    -- did you think that that statement at that time, on March 21, 1996, was the truth?

A    Did I think it was the truth?

Q    Yes, sir.

A    No, not fully.

Q    All right. So you admit that you lied -- is it your testimony now that you lied on March the 21st?

A    If you -- if that's what you say. Like I said, maybe -- maybe I did, but like I said, if I did, I did out of fear for myself.

Q    Well, Mr. Woodberry, are you denying that you made the statement -‑

A    No, sir, I'm not.

2458

Q    -- in the affidavit on -‑

A    No, sir

Q    -- March the 21st?

A    -- I'm not -- no, sir, I'm not denying that I made the statement.

Q    So what you told the jury yesterday, about the statement being true, and still standing by it, was not true?

A    No, sir, it wasn't.

Q    Now, Mr. Woodberry, you indicated yesterday, in connection with some questions Mr. Panosh asked you, that on October the 9th, you had lost your license at that time; is that right?

A    No, I said I didn't have no driver's license.

Q    Didn't have a driver's license?

A    No, sir.

Q    All right. Well, let me ask you this, Mr. Woodberry. Was that because you had lost your driver's license or -‑

A    I've never had a driver's license.

Q    All right. You have just chosen not to get a driver's license; is that correct?

A    Well, yeah, I can get them now. I have -- I've had a couple traffic violations. I drove without license years ago, and I was charged with a hit and run. But I never went and applied for a license.

2459

Q    All right. So you're not telling this jury that you couldn't drive a car?

A    Oh, no, sir.

Q    Just at that time, you didn't have a driver's license

A    Yes, sir.

Q    -- is that right?

A    Yes, sir,

Q    Now, let me ask you this, Mr. Woodberry. What have you been tried and convicted of within the past 10 years punishable by more than 60 days?

A    Like I said, I had a hit and run, possession of marijuana, carrying a concealed weapon. And like I said, this was years ago, I think. But to my knowledge, I know -- I know it was.

Q    Well, years ago, isn't it a fact, Mr. Woodberry, that- you were on probation while you were working for Ted Kimble at Lyles Building Supply?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    All right. So those -- as a result -- which one of those convictions had you been put on probation for at that_ time?

A    I think it was the -- I can't remember if I'm for sure, because I was in Lexington during the time before I had it transferred to Greensboro. I think it was the possession,

2460

or the driving, if I'm for sure.

Q    So it was for the possession of drugs; is that what it was for?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    All right. And how long had you been on probation at that time?

A    I can't recall the exact time, but it might have been a year, might have been better. I can't recall exactly how long.

Q    And so, your probation started out in Lexington; is that what your testimony is?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And then it was transferred up here to Greensboro, or was it transferred to Burlington or Graham?

A    No, Greensboro,

Q    All right. Now, your testimony here today, Mr. Woodberry, is that Ted Kimble had made a number of efforts to get in touch with you shortly after the death of Patricia Kimble; is that right?

A    After and before.

Q    All right. And he had called over to Laura Shepard's house a number of times, to try to get in touch with you?

A    Yes. I mean, to my knowledge and my understanding from Laura, I mean, it was like they became bosom buddies. I mean, she even --

2461

Q    Well -‑

A    -- told me herself that Ted had came by there plenty of times, which is something he never really did, and told me

Q    And this was after the -‑

MR. PANOSH: Excuse me.

Q    -- death. of Patricia?

MR. PANOSH: May he finish?

THE COURT: You may finish.

Q    Excuse me. I didn't realize you hadn't finished. I apologize.

A    Excuse me, sir? What --

THE COURT: You may finish your answer.

Q    Finish your answer.

A    She said -- she told me before -- even before Patricia's death that he had started coming by more.

Q    Well, but he came by after Patricia's death, is that a fact?

A    Yeah, she said that. She told me that he even came by, I think, Halloween, and bought her kids some candy.

Q    And he came by your mother's house, too, didn't he, looking for you?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And that was after Patricia's death, wasn't it?

A    Yes, sir.

2462

Q    And were you avoiding him at that time, Mr. Woodberry?

A    No, sir. I mean, not really. I just -- like I said, I didn't spend a whole lot of time in Greensboro during then, because of transportation. Like I said, if I catch a ride over here, I might come to see my mother, or, like I said, I even went to Laura's house a couple times.

Q    All right. And when did you break up with Laura?

A    Sometime during the summer of '95.

Q    All right. And so, this conversation that you had with Ted Kimble, in late October or early November, that was over at Laura's house; is that right?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    But that was after you had broken up with her?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And I believe you told Mr. Panosh that you had become good friends with Laura's family; is that right?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    But when you went over to Laura's house to stay, you had to see her, didn't you?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    All right. Arid this was the woman that you had told the jury yesterday you had such a hard time breaking up with?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    This was the woman that chased after your car, when you

2463

left with your bags; is that right?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    This was the same woman that made you go to the doctor's, because she told you she was pregnant; is that right, Mr. Woodberry?

A    Yes, she told me she was pregnant. Yesterday I said something -- I went to one doctor with her, and this was to health center.

Q    And it wasn't true that she was pregnant; is that your testimony, Mr. Woodberry?

A    Yes. I mean, I never seen any indications of it.

Q    Now, Mr. Woodberry, I asked you some questions yesterday concerning your relationship with Ted Kimble, and you indicated that you had been out to Ted and Patricia's house -‑

A    Yes, sir.

Q    -- on prior occasions -‑

A    Yes, sir.

Q    -- is that right? Now, did you go in their house?

A    Yes, I've been in their house.

Q    All right. Did that on a number of occasions; is that right?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And one time when you were out there, you or somebody who was with you got a key from Ted Kimble; is that right?

2464

A    No, sir. This -- this thing with the key, it happened at the shop. Like I said, I think Ted and Patricia was going out of town that Friday, and Ted wanted me and Robert to go out there that Saturday and paint that building. And I think we -- if I'm for sure, we'd weed eat around the building and got the yard together or whatever. Mostly yard work and painting that building. And which at that time, like I said, if I can recall, I think Robert drove the company's truck out there.

Q    All right. Well, let me -- and what was his name, Mr. Woodberry?

A    Robert Tidwell,

Q    All right. And do you recall making a statement to Detective Church on May 30, 1996?

A    I can't recollect. Like I say, I might have, but I can't -‑

Q    Well, do you remember telling Detective Church that they, meaning Patricia, and Ted, gave Rodney a key, gave you a key to their house?

MR. PANOSH: Objection.

Q    Do you recall making that statement?

MR. PANOSH: That's not in there, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Well, I don't know -- I haven't seen the statement, so I don't know.

(Mr. Lloyd showed a document to Mr. Panosh, and Mr. Lloyd

2465

and Mr. Panosh conferred.)

Q    Do you recall telling Detective Church that they gave you a key to their house?

A    Yes, I did say that. But when I said that, I meant they was giving us the key to the building. I don't know if a house key was on there or what. I don't know how many keys was on there or whatever. Like I said, the keys was in Robert's possession.

Q    And who did you mean by the -- when you made the statement "they"?

A    Ted and Patricia. I figured if they were married, if Ted gave us the key, it was their key.

Q    Now, do you remember telling the detectives, Mr. Woodberry, that even after you had quit working for Ted, he had given you money? Do you remember telling them that?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    All right. And so, there wasn't a situation -­

A    He didn't give me no money. He let me borrow the money.

Q    All right. But there wasn't a situation where Ted could take it out of your paycheck at that time, could he?

A    No. I even offered to pay it back, and he told me, he said, I think to some effect, "I'll let you come up and work it off one day."

Q    All right. So is it your testimony, Mr. Woodberry,

2466

that you never paid that money back?

A    No, he never, you know, said anything else about it after that.

Q    So he lied

A    As a matter of fact, after that -- Excuse me.

Q    Go ahead, Mr. Woodberry. No, you finish.

A    Like I said, I even -- I was going to pay him back at one time, and like I said, he had told me, said that he'll let me work it off one day. And after that, it just never came up again.

Q    He never said anything about it?

A    No, sir.

Q    Didn't say anything about it when he tracked you down over there at Laura Shepard's?

A    I can't recall.

Q    So -‑

A    He might have. He might have not. I can't recall.

Q    So in effect, Mr. Woodberry, he gave you that money, didn't he?

A    If that's what you call it. I mean, I think it was something like $60.

(Mr. Lloyd and Mr. Hatfield conferred.)

Q    Now, Mr. Woodberry, directing your attention to your activities on the afternoon of October 9, 1995, I believe you told Mr. Panosh that at that time, you were baby‑

2467

sitting; is that right?

A    Yes, sir. I think I had Beverly's two boys that day, because she had to work.

Q    All right. And so, I take it that you were not working at that time; is that right?

A    No, sir.

Q    And you mentioned someone else who was with you at that time; is that right?

A    Yes, sir, a neighbor of ours.

Q    All right. Now, when did you first tell the detectives about your whereabouts on the afternoon of October the 9th?

A    I can't recall, but I think I told them the first time I've talked to them.

Q    So you established your alibi the first time you talked to them; is that right?

A    I --

MR. PANOSH: Objection, please.

THE COURT: Objection sustained.

Q    Now, did you give them the name and address of the neighbor that was with you?

A    I can't recall, but I believe so. I mean, it's a complex apartment, and doors is like this. (Indicated.) So it's right -- I could walk out and walk into her door.

Q    All right. Was there anybody else who saw you on that afternoon?

2468

A    Maybe a couple people in that complex. Nobody really knew me, you know. I was just getting to know Burlington. So nobody really knew me, as far as just, you know, coming up and just, you know, carrying on conversations. But the people in that complex, they had seen me plenty of times.

Q    All right. So they might not have known your name and might not have known you to say "Hi" to you, but they certainly knew what you looked like; is that right?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Now, did you give the detectives the names of those other people who saw you on the afternoon of October the 9th?

A    No, sir. I think I might have mentioned before that the people in that neighborhood right there, that little section, probably had seen me, you know, that day. Maybe in the door, on the porch, or something like that.

Q    Now, were there any receipts, any sort of documentation, did you get anything that afternoon that would show -- would have a date and a time on it, that would show you were in Graham or Burlington?

A    No, because I was at home. I mean, you know, when you say receipt, you know, I -‑

Q    But did -- Go ahead.

A    I couldn't get a receipt for being at home.

Q    Well, I understand that, Mr. Woodberry. Did you walk

2469

to the store and buy something that had a date and time on it, from the cash register receipt?

A    It's a little store that we frequent a lot up there. I might have went to that store that day. I can't recall.

Q    All right.

A    I go there a lot and the people know me.

Q    Did you tell the detective about that?

A    I can't recall if I mentioned that or not.

Q    Now, Mr. Woodberry, when you gave your statement to Mr. Panosh and Detective Church, on July the 17th of 1998, did they ask you any questions at that time about where you were on the afternoon of October the 9th?

A    I can't recall if they mentioned that or not.

Q    Would you like to -‑

A    I believe he did, but like I say, I'm not for sure, I can't be for sure whether he mentioned it that day or not.

MR. LLOYD: If I may approach, Your Honor.

THE COURT: You may.

Q    Well, you've got it here. On State's Exhibit 147, that's the write-up that bears your signature, does it not

A    Yes, sir.

Q    -- of the July 17th interview?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    All right. Arid if you could show me the paragraph

2470

where it says something about your whereabouts that afternoon, afternoon of October the 9th.

(Time was allowed for the witness.)

Q    Take your time, Mr. Woodberry.

(Further time was allowed for the witness.)

A    I don't see it on here.

(Further time was allowed for the witness.)

A    I don't see nothing on here about where I was October the 9th.

Q    All right. So is it your testimony now, Mr. Woodberry, that neither Mr. Church nor Mr. Panosh asked you anything about your whereabouts on October the 9th or -­

A    Like I said, during that interview, I can't recall whether or not, you know, that was mentioned. It might have been and it might not have, but I just can't recall.

Q    But it's certainly not in the write-up that you -­

A    No, sir.

Q    -- signed, is it?

A    No, sir.

MR. LLOYD: That's all I have, Your Honor.

RECROSS-EXAMINATION by MR. PANOSH:

Q    Sir, did you tell about your whereabouts in prior interviews?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Would you look at the second paragraph of 147 and read

2471

that to the jury, please.

A    "We began by going over his prior statements to the Guilford County Sheriff's Department, and then asked Rodney Woodberry if there was anything else he was worried about or wanted to tell us about. Rodney went --" "Rodney Woodberry went on to state --"

Q    All right. So when you refer to talking about where you were on October the 9th, was that when we were going over your prior statements?

A    Could you repeat that, Mr. Panosh.

Q    Excuse me?

A    Could you repeat that.

Q    You said a few minutes ago that on July 17th, we went about -- we went over your whereabouts on October the 9th. Was that contained in those prior statements that we talked about?

A    I hear what you're saying, but I don't --

Q    All right.

A    I hear what you're saying, but I don't, you know --

Q    Let me ask you this.

MR. HATFIELD: Objection. He should answer the question.

THE COURT: Overruled.

Proceed.

Q    Do you remember discussing with Detective Church and -

2472

myself the prior statements you'd made to the Guilford County Sheriff's Department, going over them?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    In those prior statements, did it indicate where you were on October the 9th?

A    To my knowledge, I think so, yes.

MR. PANOSH: No further questions.

FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION by MR. LLOYD:

Q    Now, Mr. Woodberry, those prior statements were not accurate, were they?

A    No, sir, not detail, detail.

MR. LLOYD: That's all I have, Your Honor.

THE COURT: You may step down, sir.

(The witness left the witness stand.)