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MR. PANOSH: Ms. Dyer, please. Come up, please. Ms. Dyer. JOY HEDGECOCK DYER, being first duly sworn, testified as follows during DIRECT EXAMINATION by MR. PANOSH: Q Your name is presently what? A Joy Hedgecock Dyer. 2565 Q And during the period of time before you were married to Mr. Dyer, you were Joy Hedgecock; is that correct? A Yes, sir. Q And you've previously testified that you dated Ronnie Kimble? A Yes, sir. Q Did there come a time when there was a pregnancy in relationship to that dating? A Yes, sir. Q Would you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury the details of that, please. MR. HATFIELD: Objection. That's irrelevant. THE COURT: Overruled. A I had -- me and Ronnie had been dating for a while. I was late on my period, so I had told Ronnie. We went over to Patricia house, where Ted was at. We told Ted, and Ted was like, "Well, let's go get a pregnancy test." So we drove to Phar-Mor. Ronnie went in and purchased the test, came back and gave it to me. I went into Phar-Mor -‑ MR. HATFIELD: I can't hear her. THE COURT: A little bit louder, please, Ms. Dyer. A little bit louder, please. A I went to Phar-Mor rest room. Q Could you back up and say -- you said you drove. Who drove where? 2566 A Ted was driving. Q And who was with Ted? A Me and Ronnie. Q Where did you go? A To Phar-Mor. Q Phar-Mor's a -- A Drug-‑ Q -- pharmacy? A Yes, sir, it's like a -‑ Q What happened at Phar-Mor? A Ronnie went in, purchased a pregnancy test, came out and gave it to me. I went into the rest room at Phar-Mor and took the test, came back out and showed it to him. And it was positive. We drove back to Patricia house. We was standing out at Patricia house. I didn't know what to do. I was very nervous and upset. I was young. Q How young were you, ma'am? A I was about 16 years old. Ronnie didn't know what to do, either. Ted was like, "Well, I'll figure out what to do." Ted kept on saying, "You're not going to ruin my family. You're not going to ruin my family. My family's a pastor -- my father's a pastor." That's when -- he had -he had a gun on him at that time. And that's when he had showed it to me. I just got very, very nervous. I was afraid. I did not know what to do. Then when Ted said that 2567 he would think of something, he would figure it out, that's when Ronnie drove me back to my mom and dad's house. Q You said he had the gun on him. Who is "he"? A Ted. Q Where did you see the gun? A It was on his hip. Q Excuse me? MR. HATFIELD: It was what? A It was -- it was in -- like in a holster right here. (Indicated.) He lifted up his sweat -- I could see it under his sweat shirt. Q Did there come a time when you did see that gun? A Yes, sir. Q And where -- what were you discussing at the time you were shown the gun? What were you saying? A Can you Q What was being said at the time that the gun was shown to you? A He told me that I wasn't going to ruin his family, his father was a pastor. Q Who said that you weren't going to ruin his family? A Ted. Q What happened after -- you said Ronnie took you back to your home? A Yes, sir. 2568 Q What happened after that in regards to the pregnancy? A The next thing I know, my mom and dad had woke me up one Saturday morning, told me to get ready, that Ronnie was coming over to take me out to eat breakfast. So I got ready, I got dressed. Ronnie came and picked me up. I went, with the intentions that I was going to eat breakfast. And instead of going to eat breakfast, we went to an abortion clinic in High Point. Q Who was driving? A Ronnie was. Q Was Ted with you? A No. Q Did you then have an abortion? A Yes, sir. Q Do you know who went in and filled out the paperwork? A I filled it out. He was there with me. Q Who was with you? A Ronnie. Q Ronnie went into the clinic with you? A Yes, sir. Q Do you know who paid for it? A I assume he did. I didn't. Q Was the abortion your idea? A No, sir. Q How long after that did you and Ronnie break up? 2569 A Not long after. Q After the breakup, what occurred in regard to Ronnie? A Well, I had wrote him a letter, told him that I didn't -- I thought it was best that we didn't see each other anymore. He had sent two dozen roses up to work, where I worked at Mayflower, and it had a note on it that said "Just because." He would sit in the parking lot and wait for me to come out, and I would have to avoid -- I would have to go out another door or with people around me, because I was very scared. Q How many times do you remember him being in the parking lot? A Two or three times. Q Any portion of those events that sticks out in your mind? A Yes, sir. Q What was that? A One special time when he had sent the roses up that day, that same night, when I walked out, he was holding a -there was a rifle out the window, the window was rolled down halfway. The windows are tinted. It was a Ford Ranger truck. The windows were tinted. And the window was halfway down, and the rifle was out of it. I ran back inside and got some fellows in the kitchen to help me walk out and get into my sister car that was parked on the side. 2570 Q After that, did there ever come a time when he came in further contact with you? A Yes, sir. Q What was that? A He would follow me to church, sit behind me when I was with my -- which is my ex-husband now, he would be sitting beside me, he would drop notes over my shoulder, saying, "I want you back. Can't we work this out?" and other things. And another time, he ran over to my mom house when he -- in his uniform. Q Drawing your attention to the time when he dropped the notes, were you married at that time? A No, sir. Q Do you remember when it was that he appeared at your mother's house in his uniform? A '94. I know I was pregnant. Q And that was not -- that pregnancy had nothing to do with Ronnie; is that correct? A No. Q That was Mr. Dyer? A Yes, sir. Q And he came to your house? A Yes, sir. Q Other than saying it was '94, can you be more specific about the time? 2571 A Probably around July. I was about five months pregnant. Q When was your baby born? A In September. Q So that would have been four months prior to September? A Yes, sir. She was born in the -- in the latter part of September, September 24th. My husband -- my -- it was my fiance at the time, he was sitting there with me when Ronnie came up. Q And what was the -- does your husband have any disabilities? A Yes, sir. He hearing impaired. Q Okay. And what was the nature of the conversation, when he came to your house that evening in his uniform? A He had told me that he -- it didn't matter that I was pregnant, if I still loved him, cared about him, he would raise the baby, he would take care of it. Q He was asking to -‑ A To try to work it back out. Q Now, during the period of time that you knew Ted and Ronnie, did they associate together? A Somewhat. Q What would they do? MR. HATFIELD: Objection. THE COURT: Overruled. 2572 A Ted and Ronnie -- at one part when me and Ronnie first got together, I know that we would go out and double-date together. That's when my twin sister was alive. Q Did there come a time when you were enrolled at GTCC? A Yes, sir. Q When was that? A In '92, when I graduated, I enrolled in -- right after I graduated from high school, into GTCC. Q Did there come a time when anything happened in regard to Ronnie at GTCC? A Yes, sir. MR. LLOYD: Well, objection, Your Honor. Doesn't have anything to do with anything that's come before. THE COURT: Overruled. Q Would you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury about that, please. A Yes, sir. I was in the pool room. I had a break from in between my classes. And I was shooting some pool. And he came up in the -- he came up to the college, and came up, wanted to speak to me. He came in the pool room and grabbed me by the arm and took me out to the -- to the front of the college, and was sitting there telling me that he had to talk to me. We sat and talked for a while. I don't remember exactly what the conversation was about. I remember he came up there and got me and pulled me around to 2573 the front, to where his car was parked. It was a -- or his truck was parked. Q Were you dating at that time? A No, sir. We had broke up. MR. PANOSH: No further questions. Thank you, ma'am. CROSS-EXAMINATION by MR. HATFIELD: Q Do you know what year you were born in? A '74. Q So in the spring of 1991, were you 16 years old? A Yes, sir, I was. Q And did you say that during that period when you were 16 years old, you were going to Vandalia Christian School? A Yes, sir, I was. Q But at that time, your twin sister was still living; is that right? A Yes, sir. Q And you dated Ronnie that year? A Yes, sir. Q And he came to your house numerous times, didn't he? A Of course. Several times. Q And he got to be very good friends with your mother and father, didn't he? A Uh-huh. Q Are you still close to your mom and dad today? 2574 A Yes, I am. Q And you know that they care a great deal about Ronnie, don't you? MR. PANOSH: Objection. Q Don't you know -‑ THE COURT: Sustained. Q Don't you know that even after he broke up with you, he continued to be friends with your parents? A I know that they spoke, yes, I do. Q They spoke on many, many occasions, didn't they? A Well, I could not say. I do not live at home. Q Because -‑ A I'm not with my mother and father. Q Because eventually you had a falling out with your parents, didn't you? A I've never had a falling out with my father or mother. Q Now -‑ A I moved away from home, to be on my own. Q But you're really not on your own, are you? A Yes, I am. Q You're just living with a man, aren't you? A No. MR. PANOSH: Objection. THE COURT: Overruled. Q Aren't you living with Mr. Jeter? 2575 A No. MR. PANOSH: Object. THE COURT: Overruled. Q Are you living with Mr. Graham? MR. PANOSH: Objection. A Mr. -‑ THE COURT: Well, sustained, unless you've got some basis for that, counsel. MR. HATFIELD: I do. Q Are you living -‑ THE COURT: Overruled. Q -- with Mark Anthony Graham at the present time? A No. Who's Mark Anthony Graham? He's the one that -he's the one that was driving the car on my sister, to when she was killed. Q Are you living with Bobby Jeter at the present time? MR. PANOSH: Objection. A No, I'm not. THE COURT: Sustained. Q Now, when you started going with Ronnie Kimble, how long was it after you and he began going together that you became pregnant? A About two years. Q So it was a really long relationship, wasn't it? A Yes, sir. 2576 Q And it was a very close relationship, wasn't it? A Yes, sir. Q But it wasn't the first relationship in which you had engaged in sexual intercourse in your life, was it? MR. PANOSH: Object, please. THE COURT: Sustained. Q Isn't it a fact you had intercourse with Ted Kimble? MR. PANOSH: Object, please. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: Do I answer? THE COURT: You need to answer, ma'am. A Yes, I have. Q And your -- the incidents of sexual intercourse with Ted Kimble took place before you went with Ronnie Kimble; isn't that right? A That's right. I met -- I met Ronnie through Ted. Q And actually, you were 15 years old when you had your relations with Ted Kimble; isn't that right? A Yes, sir. And it was one time. Q What? A Yes, sir. And it was only one time. Q It happened up at a church gathering? MR. PANOSH: We object -- A No. MR. PANOSH: -- to relevance. 2577 THE COURT: Well, sustained as to that. Q Now, the business about one time is what you told your mom and dad, isn't it? MR. PANOSH: Objection. THE COURT: Sustained. Q You said you had sexual intercourse with Ted Kimble one time, but as a matter of fact, that's simply what you told your mom and dad, isn't it? MR. PANOSH: Object, please. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: Do I answer? THE COURT: You need to answer, ma'am. A That's what I told my mom and dad? I never told my mom and dad about that. My sister came in and found us and told, and I got grounded for a month. And why I was grounded, that was the only time I had -- that I had intercourse with Ted, was, he was let in through my bedroom window, with my twin sister's boyfriend at the same time. That was the only time. I was grounded for a month after that, in which Ted and Janet started to date. Q And you have been angry at Ted Kimble ever since, haven't you? A No. I am not angry at anybody. Q Because you felt he took advantage of you when you were just a kid? 2578 A No. No. Q Are you saying you're not angry at Ted Kimble over that? A No. Q So are you saying that after that happened, you were grounded for a month, that you then became friends with Ted Kimble? A We spoke. Q And you say that at the same time that he had his relationship with you and you were grounded for a month, that he began to date Janet Blakley; is that right? A Yes, sir. Q And how many years did Ted date Janet Blakley? A About a -- he dated -- they dated longer than me and Ronnie did. Q So the relationship between Ted Kimble and Janet Blakley began before your relationship with Ronnie Kimble, didn't it? A About the same time. Q And it lasted longer than your relationship with Ronnie Kimble, didn't it? A Yes, it did. Q Now, when did you go to High Point and have this abortion? A In '91. 2579 Q So you -‑ A It was -- it was the same day that I received an award at school for second team all-state softball. Q And you're quite positive it was 1991? A (The witness nodded her head up and down.) Q Well, you said in your statement that you gave to the District Attorney's Office, "In the spring of '91, while attending Vandalia Christian School, Dyer stated she began dating Ronnie Kimble," didn't you? A When -- can you please refrain (sic) it. (Mr. Hatfield handed a document to the witness.) Q Can you read that, please. (Indicated.) (Time was allowed for the witness.) A Me and Ronnie were dating before 1991. Q So the statement's wrong? MR. PANOSH: We object. THE COURT: Sustained. Don't make any comment. Q Is there an error in this statement, in terms of when it purports to say that you started dating Ronnie Kimble? A Yes, sir, because we was dating before 1991. Q Okay. So the statement's wrong in that respect, isn't it? A (The witness nodded her head up and down.) Q Would you answer the question, please. 2580 A What was the question? Q The question is, the statement was wrong, with respect of when it says you started dating Ronnie Kimble? A I just answered your question. Q So when did you start dating Ronnie Kimble? A When I was a freshman in high school. Q And how old were you then? A 15, just turned 16, 15. Q Well, then how old were you when you had your relationship with Ted Kimble? A 15. It was the same time. That's what I'm trying to tell you, it was the same time. Q So you had a relationship with Ted Kimble, and then you turned around and began a relationship with Ronnie Kimble; is that what you're testifying to? A Me and Ted never had a relationship. Q Well, he climbed in your window with another guy, didn't he? A Uh-huh. MR. PANOSH: We object. Been over that. THE COURT: Well, overruled. You may answer that, ma'am. A Yes, sir, he did. Q And subsequently, you say you began dating Ronnie Kimble? 2581 A Yes, sir, after the month was up that I was grounded. Ronnie had come down to the house. In fact, it was me, Ted, Faith, Randy, Ronnie and my sister Donna had all went to a movie. That's when the first time that I had met Ronnie. Q Now, at that time, Ted Kimble did not live with his parents, did he? A No, sir. He lived at the end of my road. Q And that's not very far from where your parents' house is, is it? A No, sir. Q So you were living with your parents' house -- at your parents' house with them, weren't you? A Yes, sir. Q And Ted and a roommate of his were living just a little ways away in a house trailer, weren't they? A Yes, sir. Q And you used to -‑ A But I didn't know that, until Ted had stopped me one day when I was running down the road. I had no idea. Q So you'd already -- he'd already climbed in the window and visited you? A No. Q So he stopped you when you were running down the road before? A One day -- that's how we actually met. We spoke for a 2582 while before anything was even engaged. Q You and Ted spoke for a while before anything was engaged? A Yeah. Because I mean, I didn't -- I didn't do anything until after school was out, and I was -- I was still in school when I met Ted, before the -- before the summer break. I was still in school. Me and Ted didn't do anything until that summer. Q And then -- and at that time -‑ A Because I remember I was grounded on July 4th, because he was up at the top of the road, shooting off fireworks. Q And you could see the fireworks out your window? A On the front -- I was sitting on the front porch. And every morning before he would leave for work, he'd leave a rose. Q Every morning when he left for work, what? A He would come by and put a rose on the porch, when I was grounded. Q A little token of his affection? A I assume so. Q So, even though you were grounded, you continued to communicate with Ted Kimble? A No, I didn't. Q And when was it that you met Ronnie Kimble? A I met Ronnie before I had gotten grounded. 2583 Q You met Ronnie because you knew him through school; isn't that right? A No, I didn't meet Ronnie through school. I met Ronnie through Ted. Because Ronnie had went out with my sister Donna one time to the movies. That's how I met Ronnie. Ronnie was supposed to be going out with Ted -- I mean, with Janet while I was with Ted. Then Ted wanted to date Janet when I was -- when I had gotten grounded, then Ted and Janet got together. And then after that, that is when Ronnie had started coming over to the house more often and stuff, and we just eventually got together. Q Janet Blakley is your cousin, isn't she? A No. Q She's no relation to you? A No. We were -‑ Q But she was a friend at that time? A Yes, sir. Q Are you and she the same age? A No, sir. She's a little older than me. Q So, you're saying that the way that the thing happened is, Ronnie Kimble dated Janet Blakley and you dated Ted Kimble? A No, I never said that they dated. I said that they were supposed to go out, and they never did. Q Who -- 2584 A So he -‑ Q Who determined that they were supposed to go out? A That's what the thing were. I was supposed to go out with Ted, Ronnie was supposed to meet Janet, and Faith, my twin sister, was with Randy. We was all -‑ Q I'm sorry. I couldn't hear. Who was the last name? A My twin sister, Faith, was with Randy Fields. Q Randy Fields? A Yes. Q All right. Did that happen? A No, it didn't. Q And what did happen, you met Ronnie instead? A No. Ronnie ended up going out with my sister Donna. We all went to the movies. Donna and Ronnie rode in the back of Ted's pickup truck with us. We went to the movies and then we come back out. And then when I got grounded, that's when Ted told me that he would like to take Janet out, and I told him, "Well, that's fine." Q Because you were forbidden to have any further dealings with Ted, right? A I wasn't forbidden, no. When I got off of grounding, it would have been fine. Q But your parents found out about what had happened because of your sister, and that's why they grounded you? A Well, yeah. I mean -- yes, of course. 2585 Q And they were determined to prevent you from having any more to do with Ted? A No, they didn't. If that was so, why would my parents invite them, Janet, Ronnie, Ted, Patricia, all of them, to the New Year's Eve party that they had? If I was forbidden, why would my parents go out the way to invite them into their house? I don't understand that. Q So at that time, it was a very happy, friendly group? A For -- yes, sir. Q And that happy, friendly group evolved into a steady relationship between you and Ronnie Kimble; is that right? A Yes, sir. Q And that was the first steady relationship that you ever had? A As far as into the terms that me and him was, yes. Q And that was the first steady relationship he'd ever had, wasn't it? A No. Q Now, did you and he consider yourselves to be in love? A Yeah, concerning at the -- at the age that I was, I -yeah, I guess so. I guess that's what you would call it. Q And you weren't dating anybody else, and he wasn't A No. No. Q And he wasn't dating anybody else, was he? A No, sir, not that I know of. 2586 Q And then, you found that you were pregnant; isn't that right? A Yes, sir. Q Now, precisely when was it that you learned that you were pregnant? A I can't tell you the exact date, sir. Q Can you tell me -‑ A That's -‑ Q Can you tell me whether it was in 1991 or 1992? A It was -- it was '91. Q And you say that in 1991, as your relationship progressed with Ronnie, Ted's relationship progressed with Janet Blakley; is that right? A I didn't involve myself in their relationship, sir. Q Well, didn't you say that Ted went with Janet Blakley for several years? A Yes, sir, he -- yes, sir, he did. Q All right. Then at some time in 1991, you sensed that you might be expecting a baby; is that right? A Well, yes, sir. When I missed my period, I assumed so. Q Did you tell Ronnie you missed your period? A Yes, sir, I did. That's why we went to Phar-Mor. Q Were you concerned about that? A Of course. Q Did you discuss it with your mom? 2587 A No, I didn't. Q You didn't discuss it with your mom, because she is completely opposed to abortion; isn't that right? A Yes, that's right. Q And so is your father; isn't that right? A Yes, that's right. Q And for them, it's a matter of religious conviction; isn't that right? A Yes, sir. And it's also a matter of religious conviction for myself, also. Q But you don't always live up to your convictions, do you? MR. PANOSH: We object, please. THE COURT: Sustained. Q You didn't live up to your conviction in this case, did you? A That wasn't my choice. Q You went ahead and had the abortion, didn't you? A I was scared. Q You were scared to have a baby when you were 16 years old? A I would rather have a baby than to have an abortion. Q That's what -‑ A If that -‑ Q -- you think now? 2588 A If that was the case, I would not have my child that I have now. Q Well -‑ A I wasn't married then. Q You don't even have custody of the child you had - MR. PANOSH: We object. A I do, too. THE COURT: Sustained. Q Isn't it a fact that in your separation agreement with your husband, that he has physical custody and you and he have legal joint custody? A That's right. MR. PANOSH: Object. A We have joint custody. THE COURT: Overruled. Q So the fact is that your current child, who was born-on September 24, 1994, named Arizona -‑ MR. PANOSH: We object, please. THE COURT: Sustained.
Q -- that child is in the custody of your
ex-husband? Q Now, in 1991, you say that you went, not to Janet Blakley's house, but to Patricia Blakley Kimble's house? A (The witness nodded her head up and down.) Q That's the lady who died, that this case is all about? 2589 A That's exactly right. Q And you say that in 1991, you went over there, and Ted and Patricia were living there? A No, not -- I -- not that I know of. Ted was there. Q Ted was at Patricia -‑ A That's right. Q -- Blakley Kimble's house -‑ A That's right. Q -- in 1991? A That's right. Q Are you aware that this is three full years before Ted Kimble and Patricia Kimble got married? A No, I didn't know that. Q Because you didn't know that Ted and Patricia didn't even know each other in 1991, did you? MR. PANOSH: Objection. THE COURT: Well, sustained. Q The fact is, you didn't go to Patricia Kimble's house, because Ted Kimble didn't even know Patricia Kimble in 1991; isn't that right? A No, that's not right. I went to Patricia house. Q And you said, you told the investigators when they wrote up this report, that it was at Brandon Station Court, didn't you? A It was Patricia house. 2590 Q But you know that Ted Kimble did not even know Patricia Blakley Kimble then, don't you? MR. PANOSH: Objection. A If -- THE COURT: Well, sustained. A If I -‑ Q When did Ted Kimble marry Patricia Blakley? A I have no idea. When I broke up with Ronnie, my dealings with the Kimble family, I had no more. I broke that off. I had no more dealings with the Kimble family after '92. I broke up with him that summer in '92, and that's when I started dating my ex-husband. Q Now, you stated when you told the investigators about all this stuff, that sometime in May of 1991, you went to an abortion clinic; is that right? A Yes, sir. Q And at the time you talked to them, you said you couldn't remember the location of the clinic; is that right? A That's right. I know it's in High Point, because I know we went down High Point Road, past Jefferson-Pilot, and all that. I remember that, because I was sick, and I had my head out the window. Q Now, you don't know who paid for it, do you? A No, I don't know who the money -- who had -- who gave up the money. I didn't pay for it, so obviously it got 2591 paid. Q You don't know whether it had to be paid for or not, do you? A No. Q Now, did Ronnie Kimble walk into that clinic with you? A Yes, he did. Q Did you walk in of your own free will? A No. Q Are you saying that you were dragged into the clinic? A I was held by the arm. I was scared. Q If you were held by an arm, why didn't you tell the investigators that when they wrote this report? A (No response was given by the witness.) Q When you got inside the clinic, did you meet a medical doctor? A A nurse, a woman. Q Did you -‑ A She set me down. She wanted to make sure that we watched a movie, a video, like they always -- I guess they said that that was routine. Q And she had you sign some papers, didn't she? A Yes, sir. Q And the papers indicated that you understood what you were doing, and that you were doing it freely and voluntarily; isn't that right? 2592 A Yes, sir, that's what -- we signed the papers. Q Now, did someone make you sign those papers? A No one forced -- no one held my hand and made me sign the papers, no. Q And no one -‑ A But I was scared for my life. Q And no one -‑ A I was scared. Q No one dragged you in there, either, did they? A What do you mean, drag me by the hair in there? Q You're just making all that up now, in the aftermath, aren't you? MR. PANOSH: Object, please. THE COURT: Sustained. Q Isn't it a fact that you felt no fear whatsoever, except the fear you felt that your mother would find out what you were doing? A My mother? Q Yes, sir -- yes, ma'am. A No. My mom and dad would have supported me and loved me and took care of me and the baby. Q Well, why did you tell the investigators, when asked, "Dyer stated she was never physically threatened by Ted or Ronnie Kimble to have the abortion"? Why did you tell the investigators that? 2593 A I wasn't physically threatened. Q You said -‑ A Not physically. Q You said, when I wasn't around, and this jury wasn't around, and no one was putting any pressure on you at all, you said that you were never physically threatened, didn't you? A Not physically, yes, sir. Q But now you're in here -‑ A I haven't said that, even still sitting here, I have not said that I was physically threatened. I haven't come out of my mouth and said that I was physically threatened. I have -- I have not said that. Q Have you ever gone back to try to locate that abortion clinic, so that you could find out more about it? A No, sir. Q When did your mom and dad finally find out what you'd done? A I don't know. Q You've talked about it with them, haven't you? A No. MR. PANOSH: Object. THE COURT: Overruled. Q Now, do you remember what years you worked at the Mayflower seafood restaurant? 2594 A Yes, sir, '92 and '93. Q When were those years? A '92 and '93. Q So sometime in 1992, after you had the abortion, you and Ronnie decided not to see each other anymore; is that right? A Yes, sir. That's what -‑ Q And he had a difficult -‑ A -- I decided. Q Excuse me? A That's what I had decided. Q You decided? A Yes, sir. Q So it was really a unilateral decision, you didn't want to have anything more to do with him? A Yes, sir. Because you found Mr. Dyer? A No, sir. Q Well, you engaged in an extramarital relationship with Mr. Dyer, too, didn't you? MR. PANOSH: Object. THE COURT: Overruled. Q Didn't you? A Yes, sir. Q And you incurred a pregnancy with Mr. Dyer, didn't you? 2595 A That's right. Q And before you had a chance to marry Mr. Dyer, Ronnie said that if you would come back to him, he would take responsibility for that; isn't that right? A Uh-huh. Q Ronnie didn't want that abortion any more than you did, did he? A I guess -- I don't know. Q You know he didn't want it any more than you, don't you? A I don't know. Q You know that he was just as torn up over that as you were, don't you? A During -- Okay. If he was so torn up about that, then why would he put that through me -- would why he -- why would he cause me to go through that? Q Because both of you mutually agreed -‑ MR. PANOSH: Object to him answering the question. Q Isn't it a fact -‑ THE COURT: Overruled. Q -- that both of you mutually agreed that you were just too young to have a baby -‑ A No, sir. Q -- and to take care of -- That's what you both agreed to, isn't it? 2596 A No, that is not what I agreed to. Q Ronnie Kimble begged you to get married and to face life and to have that baby and to not have an abortion, didn't he? A No, sir. Q Now, you say that you went to Patricia Blakley Kimble's residence -‑ MR. PANOSH: It's been asked and answered, please. Q -- on Brandon Church (sic) Court -‑ THE COURT: Overruled. Q -- and met Ted Kimble there; is that right? A Yes, sir. Q And you're saying that he had a gun strapped to his hip; is that right? A Yes, sir. Q And where was Patricia? A In the house. She wasn't outside. Q And at that time, was Ted Kimble living at that house? A I don't know that. Not that I know of, no. Q And were you able to see, under the circumstances, what this gun looked like? A It was a black gun. That's all that I seen. Q Did he ever take it out of the holster? A Not then. Not then. Q And as a matter of fact, there was a shirt covering it? 2597 A It was a sweat shirt. Q Yes. So you couldn't even see it, could you? A He showed it to me. He lifted it up and then put the sweat shirt back down. Q And told you he had a gun on his hip? A He showed it to me. He didn't tell me. Q And did he tell you that he was going to do anything with that gun? A No, sir, he didn't say that. Only thing, when he showed me the gun, he told me that I was not going to ruin his family, that his father was a pastor. Q He was -- that you were not going to ruin his family? A (The witness nodded her head up and down.) Q But you're going to ruin his family now, if you possibly can, aren't you? A (The witness shook her head from side to side.) MR. PANOSH: Object, please. THE COURT: Sustained. Q What is your reason for coming in here and dredging up these events from seven or eight years ago in your miserable life? MR. PANOSH: Objection. THE COURT: Sustained. Q What is your reason for coming here and bringing these things to everybody's attention, eight years after they 2598 happened? A I was asked these questions from the past. I had no dealing with this. They came to me. I did not find anybody. My dealing of being here is to tell the truth. Q That's what they told you upstairs, isn't it? A I haven't even been upstairs. Q Well, where were you when you wrote the statement that said that you were never physically threatened by Ted or Ronnie Kimble? Where were you then? A Wrote a statement? Q When you told the people that wrote this statement down A In Greenville -‑ Q -- where were you? A -- North Carolina. Q What? A In Greenville, North Carolina. They came to me. Q And you told them that back in the days when you were dating Ronnie Kimble, that he was overly possessive, didn't you? A Yes, sir. Q And that's really what that's about, is the fact that while you were still going with him, you just decided to move to another person, and you took up a relationship with Mr. Dyer; isn't that right? 2599 A No, sir. I was broke up with Ronnie for a good two, three months, before me and Henry even got together. My twin sister, Faith, was dating his twin brother at the time, Sammy. Q What period of time did you work at the Mayflower? A From '92 to '93. Q So when was it that you claim that Ronnie Kimble came to the Mayflower and sat outside, after he'd given you roses? A In May of -- May of 1992, right after I had graduated from high school. That's when I got -- when I got -- when I had graduated from high school, the day after I graduated, my family went to the beach for six days. We came back. The following week, me and my twin sister went together to Mayflower and applied for a job. Q Now, according to the language that is incorporated in this statement that was written down in Greenville, it says that "sometime in the spring (May of 1991)," you all went to get this abortion. Is this accurate? MR. PANOSH: Objection. This has been over - MR. HATFIELD: I want to -‑ MR. PANOSH: -- at least twice. MR. HATFIELD: I want to orient it to the Mayflower thing. I think I can ask -‑ THE COURT: Well, Mr. Hatfield, we've been over 2600 it three or four times. I remember that the -‑ MR. HATFIELD: Well, I'm slow to remember. I'm sorry, Your Honor. THE COURT: One more time. Answer it, ma'am. Q Was it -- is it accurate when it says May of 1991? A As far as? Q When you had the abortion. A Yes, sir. Q So are you saying now that in May of 1992, you graduated from high school and received your awards? Did you just say you graduated from high school in May of 1992? A That's right, May 29, 1992. Q And are you saying that a full year after you had this abortion, that Ronnie Kimble was still bringing you roses? A Yes, sir, it was. Q And that sometime around May of 1992, you say you saw him out in the parking lot one day and you thought he had a gun with him? A Yes, sir. Q Who else was there? A Several people that worked there. Q Can you name them? A No. It's been so long ago. They were kitchen people. Q So there isn't anybody that you can think of now who 2601 would back you up on this? A Not now. She's dead. Q Your sister's dead? A Yes. Q So it's true, as I just asked you, that there's no one who can back you up on that story, right? A No, sir. Q And you never really told that story until these investigators went down and asked you about it, did you? You never told that story to anybody, about thinking that you saw Ronnie with a gun? A Wrong. Q Well, who did you tell it to? A I told my sister. My sister Bonnie, she knew about the abortion. My sister Donna knew about the abortion. They both knew when it happened. Q Now -‑ A I talked to my sister instead of my parents, because I felt like I was closer to my older sister. Q Plus, they're not as opposed to abortion as your parents? A Oh, yes, they are. Very. Q Now, what did this gun look like? A Which gun? Q This gun you claim you saw. 2602 A When I had the pregnancy test and we came back to Patricia house -‑ Q No. A -- and Ted -‑ Q The gun that you claim you saw in Ronnie's possession. A In Ronnie's possession, the one at Mayflower, it was a rifle. He carried it behind his seat in the truck. Q Was there a rack on the -‑ A No. Q -- window of the truck? A It was behind the seat. Q And you had seen it on many previous occasions? A Yes. We target practiced with it, went to turkey shoots, shot in my mama's back yard in the woods. Q You shot the gun yourself, didn't you? A Yes, I had. Q What kind of gun was it? A This was a rifle. I don't -- I don't know. I'm not an expert on guns, sir. Q And was it in rather new condition, or was it an older gun? A I cannot remember that. Q Is it something that Ronnie had had for as long as you knew him? A I can't say -- I would not know that. 2603 Q So, in a full year after you've had your abortion, and many, many, many months after you had broken up with Ronnie, you say that he was still trying to communicate with you, and that he left you some flowers at Mayflower; is that right? A Yes, sir. MR. PANOSH: Objection. Q And you say -‑ THE COURT: Overruled. Q -- that you saw this gun, that you'd seen many times before, in his possession then; is that right? A Yes, sir. This was after we had broken up. He had been following me to church, about ran my ex-husband off the road, chasing him up and down Randleman Road. Q Did you tell the people that wrote this report about your ex-husband, so they could go ask him about this? A Yeah, if -- yeah, I have. Q Did you tell these investigators that Ronnie Kimble's mother did not particularly like you? MR. PANOSH: Object. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: Answer? THE COURT: You may answer. A Yes, sir. Q And that bothered you, didn't it? 2604 A I guess to some degree, back in -- back when we was dating. Q And did you also tell these investigators that you thought that Ronnie Kimble's parents paid more attention to Ted than they did to Ronnie? A Yes, sir. Q And you knew that of -- as a fact, of -‑ A Yes, sir. Q -- your own observation, didn't you? A Yes, sir. Q Everything that Ted did was right, wasn't it? MR. PANOSH: Object. THE COURT: Overruled. Q In their -- in your observation, everything that Ted did was right, wasn't it? A Accord-- what I thought? Q Yeah, what you say. You saw that the way Ted was treated was, everything he did was right? A The way I thought the way that everything that he did the way his parents thought -‑ Q Yeah. A -- was right? Yes, sir. Q And everything that Ronnie did was a little bit lacking, wasn't it? A Uh-huh. 2605 Q And during the time before you broke up with Ronnie, you felt very sorry for him for that situation, didn't you? A Yes, sir. Well, during the whole time that we was together. Q So, aren't we really just looking back on a typical teenage relationship that just didn't go anywhere? Isn't that what this is all about? MR. PANOSH: Object. THE COURT: Sustained. Q You were a teenager and he was a teenager; isn't that right? A Yes, sir. Q And no matter what you and he might have wanted to do, you were just too young to really do it, weren't you? A What do you mean -‑ Q You just -‑ A -- too young to really -‑ Q You couldn't get married and have that baby and -‑ A I could have got married. Q -- big house in the country - A I could have -‑ Q What? A I could have gotten married or had the baby. Q How were you going to support yourselves? A I don't know. I could have lived at home with my mom 2606 and dad. Q And Ronnie could have mowed lawns, right? THE COURT: Well, sustained. Move along. Q Isn't it a fact that the -- that Ronnie was very industrious in running his yard care business during this period when you knew him? A Yes. He had a lawn care service. Q And he had quite a few customers, didn't he? A Yes, sir. I helped out on occasions. Q And he worked real hard whenever he was not in school; isn't that right? A That's right. Q And he paid his way for everything, didn't he? A Yes, sir, as far as I -- as far as I know, yes, sir. Q And until your relationship went sour, he took good care of you, didn't he? A What do you mean took good care of me? Q He dated you and was nice to you and made you feel good and did things with you and was a good companion for you, wasn't he? A At the beginning. Q And then the pregnancy came along, didn't it? A Yes, sir. Q Things changed? A (The witness nodded her head up and down.) 2607 MR. HATFIELD: Thank you. I have no further questions. MR. PANOSH: No further. THE COURT: Step down, ma'am. Watch your step. (The witness left the witness stand.) THE COURT: Stand and stretch, if you'd like, members of the jury.
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