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Rose Lyles, Witness for the State


THE COURT: Next witness, please.

You may stand and stretch, members of the jury.

MR. PANOSH: Ms. Rose Lyles, please.

ROSE LYLES, being first duly sworn, testified as follows during DIRECT EXAMINATION by MR. PANOSH:

Q    Would you state your name, please.

A    My name is Rose Lyles.

MR. LLOYD: Your, Honor I think this falls into the same category as the witnesses before this.

THE COURT: All right.

MR. LLOYD: However Your Honor wants to handle it.

THE COURT: Members of the jury, you may take your recess. It may be a little longer than 15 minutes. Do not come back in the back hall until the court officer lets you come in. Does everyone understand?

(Jurors nodded their head up and down.)

(The jury left the courtroom at 3:09 p.m.)

THE COURT: All right. You may proceed.

MR. PANOSH: Yes, sir.


Q    Ms. Lyles, you currently reside at Long Beach, North Carolina; is that right?


A    That's correct.

Q    How long have you lived there?

A    Since 1994 permanently. Off and on before that. Were down vacations or when we could get away.

Q    And before that, did you reside in Greensboro?

A    That's -- in Julian.

Q    Julian. And your husband ran Lyles Building Supply; is that correct?

A    That's correct.

Q    And in the course of that business, he hired Theodore Kimble?

A    He did.

Q    And in knowing Theodore Kimble, you came to know Patricia Kimble; is that correct?

A    That's correct.

Q    And you did various things with Patricia Kimble; is that correct?

A    Well, as --

Q    Well, let me ask you this. Were you scheduled to go on a retreat --

A    We were.

Q    -- the weekend after her death?

A    That's correct, uh-huh.

Q    Did there come a time in the week or two weeks prior to her death when she called you at your residence in Long



A    She did.

Q    Would you tell the Court about that, please.

A    She called one day, it was approximately a week or so before, and she had wanted to talk to my husband. He was a good advisor to her. And I told her he wasn't there. And she said -- I said, "Well, Patricia, is everything all right?" And she started crying. And she cried and she cried. And I cried with her, not knowing why. And I said, "What in the world is wrong?" And she said, "Rose, Ted is not the man that I married." And I said, "What do you mean?" And she said, "All he cares about is money." She said, "I was going through a drawer and I found a life insurance policy that he had forged my name on."

Then she cried some more. And I cried some more with her. And she said, she said, "I'll tell you," she said, "Rose, I'm so afraid." She said, "When I go to bed at night, I don't know if I'll wake up in the morning or not."

And I can honestly tell you, I have never heard such fear in a voice as I heard in that girl's voice that day.

Shortly after that conversation, she calmed down. And my husband did come in and he talked with her.

(Ms. Sheila Blakley was crying.)

Q    In the course of that conversation, did you discuss anything else?


A    She said that they had ordered a car --

THE COURT: That's all right. The jury's not in here. She may express her emotions.

A    She said that they -- Ted had ordered a car that had -- which they didn't need, and had about $5,000 worth of extras on it, that were of no real value to them, except -- that were available.

Q    Did she speak about anything else?

A    She said that Ted slept with a gun under his pillow at night.

Q    And I take it this conversation took a substantial period of time, because she was crying?

A    She was crying.

Q    Okay.

A    And I was in shock, I tell -- you know, Ted Kimble is the last person in this world that I would have ever thought would have done anything harmful to anybody. And it was -- I was having a hard time understanding, through her -- through her tears, how it could be the same boy that we'd known as practically our own for so many years. But then when I heard that girl -- the fear in her, and the angst that was in her voice, I realized that she's right, that he was not the man that she had married.

Q    Other than the things she stated and the crying, did you -- did anything else occur during that conversation?


A    We talked about meeting at Ridgecrest --

Q    That was the --

A    -- on Friday.

Q    That was the retreat on the following weekend?

A    That's the retreat, uh-huh. It would be the first time that we had been, but it would have been the third time for Patricia and Ted to go, since they were married.

Q    Other than --

A    She made all the arrangements.

Q    Other than that, did you talk about anything else? Let me ask you this. At the conclusion of that conversation, did your husband come in and did you give the phone to him?

A    That's correct. That's correct.

Q    All right.

MR. PANOSH: No further on voir dire, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Do you wish to examine the witness?

MR. LLOYD: No, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Do you wish to be heard?

MR. PANOSH: No, Your Honor.

MR. LLOYD: Just briefly, Judge Cornelius. We got a couple of new wrinkles here. I would -- I'm not going to -- replow the ground that we've already gone over. But the witness stated that the witness realized at some point, based on the tone of Patricia's voice, that she was right, and that Ted was not the man that she married. And that's


what the witness's statement was. Obviously, that's an improper statement. The witness is giving an opinion about what Patricia said. Now, certainly that part that was elicited on voir dire is improper to put before the jury, and she can't comment on the truth or the veracity of this out-of-court statement.

THE COURT: You're not saying that Patricia can't say that?

MR. LLOYD: Well, no.

THE COURT: You mean, this statement --

MR. LLOYD: Well, that is my position, Your Honor. I don't want to give up that position. But the witness said something, in addition to that. She said --

THE COURT: I agree with you.

MR. LLOYD: All right.

THE COURT: I understand what you've said.

MR. LLOYD: All right. And the one different thing is that, we've got a fact here that I'd ask Your Honor to consider, that the -- Patricia said that Ted slept with a gun under the pillow. Specifically, without abandoning any of my earlier objections, I would ask Your Honor to give that careful consideration.

And Judge Cornelius, and finally, we would ask again for the instruction, and ask that the instruction include all the evidence from the witness, not just Ted's


statements. Because all of this, according to Mr. Panosh's own theory, goes to his conspiracy theory. So we would ask that you give that instruction before the witness testifies, that all the evidence she's testifying here to should be only considered if the State proved beyond a reasonable doubt that there in fact did exist a conspiracy in this case.

THE COURT: The State wish to be heard?

MR. PANOSH: We wouldn't be eliciting this witness's feelings. We feel that the fact there was a gun under the bed is a specific fact which induced the fear -­under the pillow of the bed, and therefore, under Westbrooks, is admissible.

THE COURT: The Court will overrule the objection and rule that this witness's testimony will be -- is relevant and would come within the exception to the hearsay rule under 803(3), in that it expresses emotional or existing mental state of the victim, and that this witness may testify as to those statements that she was afraid, that she was upset, crying. And she may also testify about the life insurance policy, such that that's the theory of the State's case, that it was for pecuniary gain. And as to the gun being under the pillow, the Court will allow that in, based on the fact that it is relevant to the case and would be also within the existing mental or emotional state, in


that she was fearful on the occasion.

I will not allow the witness to testify as to her opinion of Ted, but she may express an opinion as to what -­I mean, she may express that the victim -- I mean -- yeah, the victim, Pat, had told her about him not being the person that she married. That's relevant and pertinent. And the Court will find that the probative value would outweigh any prejudicial aspects it might pose. And I'll give the instruction requested about the co-conspirator.

What else, sir?

MR. PANOSH: The next witness is Mr. Lyles. He picks up the phone after her. Did you want to get into that in the absence of the jury at this time?

THE COURT: Well, yes, we need to do it, but I'd like to take a break, too.

MR. PANOSH: Yes, sir. Whatever you say.

MR. HATFIELD: Your Honor --

THE COURT: Bring him up.

MR. HATFIELD: -- we would accept essentially the same ruling on Mr. Lyles, just to save time, and –-

THE COURT: All right, sir.

MR. HATFIELD: -- don't wish to be heard.

THE COURT: Appreciate that.

You may step down for the break.

We'll take about a 10-minute break.


(The witness left the witness stand.)

(A recess was taken at 3:20 p.m.)

(Court reconvened at 3:32 p.m. The defendant was present. The jury was not present.)

(The jury entered the courtroom at 3:33 p.m.)

(The witness returned to the witness stand.)

THE COURT: Okay. You may continue.



Q    Ms. Lyles, did you know Patricia Kimble before her death?

A    I did.

Q    Can you explain how you got to know her.

A    I got to know her through Ted. And when I would go up to the business, when -- before Gary sold it, she frequently was there. Not frequently. She -- some of the time, she would be there when I was there.

Q    Did you need some water, ma'am?

A    I just put in a cough drop. Sorry.

Q    Okay. You indicated that you would go to the business?

A    Uh-huh.

Q    What business is that, ma'am?

A    Lyles Building Material.

Q    And "before Gary sold it," Gary would be whom, please?

A    Gary what?


Q    Who is Gary that you referred to?

A    My husband, Gary Lyles.

Q    So you and your husband owned Lyles Building Supply before it was sold?

A    Yes.

Q    And how did you meet Theodore Kimble, Ted Kimble?

A    We met at church.

Q    And did there come a time when he became employed for your husband at Lyles?

A    He did.

Q    And in the course of your acquaintanceship with him, you met Patricia; is that correct?

A    That's correct.

Q    Did you meet her before or after the marriage?

A    Before.

Q    Now, drawing your attention to the one- to two-week period before her death, did there come a time when she called you?

A    Yes, there did.

Q    And you were at your residence, and where is your residence, please?

A    At Long Beach, North Carolina.

Q    And would you describe for the ladies and gentlemen of the jury that conversation, please.

A    Patricia called one day right around lunchtime. She


wanted to speak to my husband. He was not there. And so, I said, "Well, how are you doing, Patricia?" And she started crying. She cried and she cried and she cried. And I cried, too, not knowing what I was crying about or she was crying about. I said, "What in the world is wrong?" And she said, "Rose," she said, "Ted is not the man that I married." And I said, "Well, in what respect?" She said, "All he cares about is money, money." She said he had bought a car that they didn't need, that had $5,000 worth of extras on it that were not really needed.

And then she started crying harder, and then she said, "Rose, I found an insurance policy, and Ted forged my name on it, a life insurance policy." She said that Ted sleeps with a gun under his pillow at night. And she said that she didn't know when she woke up -- if she would wake up in the morning or not when she went to bed at night.

And I can tell you honestly, I have never heard such fear in anybody's voice in all my life. And I hope I never do again. She was really so afraid.

We talked about, we had planned to take a marriage retreat. She and Ted in fact had talked us into it. And we were to leave -- meet them at Ridgecrest, at a Baptist retreat, on Friday, before she -- the Friday after she was killed. And we had talked about that. And about that time, my husband came in, and so he talked to her from there on.


Q    Did you ever get an opportunity to speak to her again?

A    The Saturday before, before she died, she called that morning, wanting to know the price of something. She was working up at the business and didn't know the -- I don't know if Ted was there or not, but she needed to know the price of something, and I didn't know. And Gary wasn't there. So she was -- wanted to get the telephone number of our nephew, who has a building supply business in High Point. And we didn't have time for conversation, because Saturday mornings are pretty busy at a building materials business.

MR. PANOSH: No further questions. Thank you, ma'am.


Q    Ms. Lyles, you say that Patricia called you the Saturday before she died?

A    She called to get a price.

Q    That's right.

A    Uh-huh.

Q    And she talked to you at that point?

A    She talked to me. Gary was not at home.

Q    And that would have been how long after this first conversation that you've referred to?

A    Maybe a week or less.

Q    She did not voice any concerns at that time, did she?


A    Didn't have time to. It was strictly business. I just gave her Ricky's number and that was all.

Q    Well, my question to you is, did she voice any of the concerns that she had in the first conversation?

A    No.

MR. LLOYD: The defendant Ronnie Kimble would have no further questions, Your Honor.

THE COURT: You may step down, Ms. Lyles. Watch your step, please.

(The witness left the witness stand.)



Published August 15, 2006.  Report broken links or other problems.

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