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Nancy Young, Witness for the State


THE COURT: The State call its next witness, please.

MR. PANOSH: Ms. Young, please. Ms. Young, if you'd go up to the bailiff, he'll show you where to sit. NANCY YOUNG, being first duly sworn, testified as follows during DIRECT EXAMINATION by MR. PANOSH:


Would you state your name, please.

A    Nancy Young.

Q    Ms. Young, where do you work?

A    I don't work now.

Q    Okay.

A    I --

Q    Were you previously employed at Cinnamon Ridge Apartments?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And did you work there with Patricia Kimble?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Drawing your attention then to October the 9th and the days before October the 9th, did you see Patricia on a regular basis?

A    Yes. Every day. Well, Monday through Friday. I worked Monday through Friday.

Q    What were her general duties there?

A    Well, she was the apartment manager. She really handled everything, you know, as far as the tenants and all that. What -- I just was like her assistant. I would show the apartments. And she would do all the approving and everything on -‑

Q    How many units did you have?

A    Pardon me?

Q    How many units were there at Cinnamon Ridge,



A    I don't remember. I don't remember.

Q    Was it a large complex?

A    A large one? Yeah, it was pretty good size.

Q    Do you remember the events of October the 9th, the day that she was killed?

A    She came in that morning, and she usually would come in like around 8:30, I guess. And she had been there a few minutes and she said, "Well," she says, "lady, I'm going to --" she called me "lady," and she says, "I'm going to be leaving early." And I said, "Patricia," I said," "you never leave early on Mondays."

MR. LLOYD: Your Honor, I object as to what Ms. Kimble said on these occasions, on the grounds previously raised.

THE COURT: Overruled.

A    Go ahead? Go ahead?

Q    Please continue.

A    Anyway, I said to her, I said, "Well, you never leave early on Mondays." And she said, "Well, I got to go home and mow the yard." And they had had some kind of special that -- I mean, a cookout or something I think that weekend, seems like she said. And so, anyway, I said, "Well, okay," you know, just like that. And we continued to work.

And she left for lunch. I think it was about 11:30.


Well, actually, she had to go downtown, because there was some low-income apartments in there, and she had to go down there, and she'd -- you'd have to go down there and get them approved again for the -- for the next time that their contract came up. And so then she went to lunch. And I got back about 2:00 and she was there.

And then she just -- she worked around the office, and she left about 3:25, I think it was, something like that. And right before she left, Ted had called and -‑

Q    How do you know that Ted Kimble called her right before she left?

A    Well, I had answered the phone.

Q    And you referred the call to Patricia?

A    Uh-huh. And she said -- well, they had had lunch, too. Continue? Do you want me to go ahead?

Q    (Mr. Panosh nodded his head up and down.)

A    So anyway, after she left, I received a call from Hershel, who was her boss from New York. And he had asked about some papers that she was going to -- that needed to be faxed, so I faxed them to him. And I thought, well, I'll just call her and tell her that Hershel had called and that it would be okay for her to call him in the morning. And then, when I called, I let the phone ring about four times, and then it dawned on me, well, she's not going to hear the phone, because she's outside mowing, because I was under the


impression when she left that she was going straight home.

And then, about 9:30 or going on 10:00 o'clock, it was some -- between 9:30 and 10:00, we got a -- I got a call from the maintenance guy's wife, and he said -‑

Q    Okay.

A    Stop?

Q    Let's not go into it at this point.

A    Okay.

Q    Let me ask you some questions about these times. You said she left around 11:30 to go downtown?

A    (The witness nodded her head up and down.)

Q    Did she come back before she took her lunch break?

A    No. Huh-uh.

Q    So the next thing you knew was at 2:00 o'clock, when you returned to the office and she was present?

A    Uh-huh.

Q    And you said Hershel from New York called. Is that -­what's his name? Is that Mr. Sosnoff?

A    Right. Right.

Q    And you said you faxed some papers to who?

A    To Mr. -- to Hershel.

Q    And then you indicated you called Patricia. Where did you call her?

A    I called her at her home.

Q    At approximately what time was that, when you called at


her home?

A    It was like five till 4:00, 4:00 o'clock, somewhere around there.

Q    Before she left, did Patricia indicate to you that she was going anywhere other than going to mow her lawn?

A    No.

Q    Had you ever been to Patricia's house?

A    No, sir.

Q    But based upon your knowledge of her home, you expected her to be home by the time you dialed; is that correct?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Now, in the days preceding her death, did you have a conversation with her in regard to insurance?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    Would you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury about that, please.

MR. LLOYD: Objection again, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Set the time frame, Mr. Panosh.

Q    In the week prior to her death, did you have a conversation with her in reference to insurance?

A    A week? No, it seemed like it had been before that.

Q    Okay.

A    Before that.

Q    How long prior to her death?

A    Like a couple of weeks, seems like, or --


Q    And was this at cinnamon Ridge that you had that --

A    Uh-huh.

Q    -- conversation?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And what did she tell you?

A    Well, she came in that morning, and I could tell that she was really upset. And so, I said, "Patricia," I said, "what's the matter?" And she says, "Well, I was getting ready for work, and I got a phone call from an insurance company, wanting to set up a physical for me." And she says, "I don't -- I didn't know anything about it," you know, about insurance. And she says, "They told me that Ted had taken a $200,000 life insurance policy out on me." And she said, you know, "I can't believe that he would do that, and us not discuss it," because they usually discussed everything. And she was pretty upset. And so, then they went to lunch, and when she came back from lunch, I could tell she was feeling better. And I said, "Did you all get things worked out?" And she said, "Yeah." She said, "Everything's okay."

Q    When you say "they went to lunch," who are you referring to?

A    She and Ted.

Q    Did you have further conversations in regard to that insurance?


A    No, sir, we never discussed it anymore.

Q    And you indicated that on October the 9th, in the evening hours, you got a telephone call?

A    Yes.

Q    And what was that telephone call about?

A    The maintenance guy at the apartment's wife had called, and she said, "Nancy, I think --"

MR. LLOYD: Well, objection to what she said, Your Honor.

THE COURT: sustained.

Q    without stating what you were told, what did you do?

A    What did I do?

Q    Yes.

A    My husband and I got into the car -- got in the car and went to Patricia's house.

Q    And what time did you arrive there? Well, let me ask you this. Was the fire department already there?

A    Oh, yes. Yes.

Q    And were there a number of relatives and friends gathered there?

A    Yes.

Q    And was Ted Kimble there?

A    Yes.

Q    What, if anything, occurred while you were there at the scene of the fire?


A    Well, I mean, we were just -- actually, everybody was just sitting and waiting. You know, they were hoping that it wasn't her in there, but, you know, her car was there, and the keys and everything was in her car, so -- and like I say, we just set there for a few -- well, a couple of hours. And then everybody went to the church, and we went with them, the family and all. And we were over there at the church probably till about 2:00 o'clock that morning, seems like.

MR. PANOSH: No further questions. Thank you, ma'am.


Q    Ms. Young, my name is Jack Hatfield, and I'm Ronnie's lawyer.

A    Uh-huh.

Q    Do you remember me calling you a couple of times --

A    Yes.

Q    -- last year --

A    Yes.

Q    -- or earlier this year?

A    (The witness nodded her head up and down.)

Q    In April of 1997, did you tell me that --

MR. PANOSH: We object.

THE COURT: Overruled.

Q    -- that there was -- that Patricia said that Ted was


negotiating for a $100,000 insurance policy?

A    Well, I did say 100, but then I remembered that it was $200,000.

Q    Did someone refresh your recollection?

A    Just -- I was just reading my statement earlier. Not today, but earlier.

Q    Have you talked to Detective Church about this case?

A    When it first happened, yes.

Q    Did you talk to some people in the District Attorney's Office recently?

A    Yes.

Q    And they showed you a statement that you'd made earlier --

A    Yes.

Q    -- to refresh your recollection?

A    (The witness nodded her head up and down.)

Q    So, in April of last year, it seemed like it was $100,000, but it turns out you think it was maybe $200,000?

A    Whatever I had told Detective Church at the first -- the next day.

Q    Do you remember telling Detective Church that Patricia arrived around 9:40 a.m. that morning?

A    No. It's been -- been a couple of years ago, so I

don't --

MR. HATFIELD: May I show the witness a document?


Q    Would you look at the first paragraph of this, please,

and see if it refreshes your recollection. (Time was allowed for the witness.)

A    Okay.

(The witness handed the document to Mr. Hatfield.)

A    I didn't see --

Q    Does it refresh your recollection?

A    Yes.

Q    What time did you tell Detective Church that Patricia arrived on October 9th?

A    On October the 9th?

Q    The day that --

A    9:40. That's on the paper.

Q    About 9:40 a.m.? And then she went out to recertify low-income houses?

A    Right.

Q    Those are section 8 houses, aren't they?

A    Right.

Q    And the money comes not from the person living in the house, but from another source?

A    Right.

Q    And you didn't see her again until 2:00 o'clock; is that correct?

A    Well, I mean, she was around the office until she left.

Q    How long did it take her to do the section 8 stuff



A    Well, I really don't know. She didn't say. She said she was going to do that and then she was going to have lunch with Ted.

Q    But my question is, between 9:40, when she popped in the office, and 2:00 o'clock, when you got back from lunch, did you see her again, or was she involved in the section 8 stuff and seeing Ted?

A    Well, no, she was at the office till about 11:30, she left, to go downtown.

Q    So the lunch was a combination of taking care of a downtown business and seeing Ted for lunch; is that how it worked?

A    Well, she was going to do the downtown business first and then going to meet Ted for lunch.

Q    And then she left about 3:25 p.m. that afternoon to go home?

A    Right.

Q    Now, Mr. Hershel Sosnoff called and wanted something done, and you took care of it, is that right, since Patricia was not in the office?

A    Yes, sir.

Q    And then you wanted to alert her to the fact it had been taken care of, so you called her around 4:00 o'clock?

A    Right.


Q    But then, after you started to call, you realized that she would be mowing, and you decided not to put the message on her answering machine?

A    Right.

Why didn't you just put it on her answering machine?

A    Well, I just -- I figured I would see her the next morning and just tell her.

Q    It was taken care of anyway, so it wasn't that big a deal, right?

A    Well, I mean, I had faxed the papers to him, right.

Q    Now, looking back over all the time you knew Patricia, there's only one time that she ever talked about insurance; isn't that right?

A    Right.

Q    And that's the time you just told about in here?

A    Right.

Q    And you never again heard whether or not a policy was vested in her or not, did you?

A    No. Like I say, we never discussed it after that day.

Q    But you had many, many opportunities to observe Patricia and Ted interacting with one another, didn't you?

A    Yes.

Q    How would you characterize their interaction?

A    They seemed to be very happy.

Q    Were they affectionate?


A    Yes.

Q    Were they embarrassingly affectionate?

A    sometimes, yes.

Q    Would you, without embarrassing yourself, describe that in just a little more detail to the jury.

A    I don't know. I mean, they were always kissing and stuff, and whenever they were around, Ted was always with her, I mean, had his arm around her or something. And, I mean, that's

Q    And that continued right up until October 9th, didn't it?

A    Yeah. Well, Ted didn't come to the apartments very much, but when he was there, that's the way --

Q    Did he occasionally do some work for the maintenance people at the apartment? Ted?

A    He had prior to me coming there. But he had not done anything when I came.

Q    So he had not gone up on a ladder to heights that the normal maintenance man didn't want to climb, at least not while you were there?

A    No, not while I was there.

Q    You had been a member of patricia's church quite awhile before you took the job at Cinnamon Ridge, hadn't you?

A    I'm sorry?

Q    You had been a member of the same church as Patricia



A    No. No.

Q    ah, you weren't?

A    No. I went to Monnett Road.

Q    So it was after Patricia died that you changed churches?

A    Right.

Q    Did you meet Patricia initially when you got the job there?

A    Did I meet her then?

Q    Yeah.

A    No. I had met her at the -- at Monnett Road.

Q    So, because you knew the Kimble family, you had met Patricia before you took a job at Cinnamon Ridge?

A    Right.

Q    So were you sort of recruited by Patricia, more or less?

A    Well, actually, Ms. Kimble is the -- Edna is the one that told me about the job.

Q    And then you asked --

A    And so, then I went and talked to Patricia about it.  She had told Edna to tell me to come in.

Q    Edna's Ted and Ron Kimble's mom

A    Right.

Q    -- is that right? Now, did you know that Patricia had


participated in a big yard sale on saturday at Cinnamon Ridge?

A    Yes.

Q    Were you there yourself?

A    No, I didn't go.

Q    Was that something that was semi-official with the apartment complex, or was that just a good location to have it at?

A    No. I think they did it every year.

Q    And do you know whether it was a success?

A    Well, I asked her the next -- on Monday if, you know, the yard sale went okay, and she said, "Yeah. Real good." And that's all she said.

Q    Did she tell you whether she personally received any money from the yard sale?

A    No. I didn't ask her that.

Q    Did you know any of the other families that participated in the yard sale?

A    Not really, no.

Q    Do you know

A    Just -- I mean, I know that it was some of the people that lived in the complex.

Q    Do you know whether Ted was involved in the yard sale at any time on Saturday?

A    I don't remember, huh-uh.


Q    If I may show you the same document again. Would you take a look at this paragraph. (Indicated.) (Time was allowed for the witness.)

A    Are you talking about the insurance?

Q    Yes, ma'am.

A    I'm sorry. It's hard to read. I don't have my glasses.

Q    Okay.

(Further time was allowed for the witness.)

A    Okay. That's what I said.

Q    Does that refresh your recollection about the hundred thousand?

A    Yes, uh-huh.

Q    So you told Mr. Church that this policy that Patricia had talked about was $100,000, didn't you?

A    I must have, yes.

Q    And this conversation you had with Detective Church was just three days after Patricia died; isn't that right?

A    No. Actually it was the next day.

Q    okay. So wouldn't your memory have been better then than it would be now, concerning the amount that you heard about?

A    Well, I was extremely upset that day.

MR. HATFIELD: I don't have any further questions.

Thank you.


Excuse me just a moment, Your Honor.

(Mr. Hatfield and Mr. Lloyd conferred.)

MR. HATFIELD: I do have a couple of more questions, if I may.

THE COURT: All right, sir.

Q    Ms. Young, there was a petty cash fund in the office there, wasn't there?

A    Yes, sir.

A few hundred dollars that were kept on hand?

A    Yes.

Q    Was Patricia in charge of that money?

A    Yes.

Q    After she died, was the money in the office?

A    Was there money in the office?

Q    Was the petty cash there?

A    I don't recall ever -- I -- I don't recall, because I didn't go into the petty cash.

Q    But you continued to work there for a few weeks after she died, didn't you?

A    Yes, for about a month.

Q    Did anyone ever account for the petty cash that she had _ the responsibility for?

A    Not unless Hershel checked it when he came. He came a couple of days, I think, after she died.

Q    Did she sometimes carry it with her?


A    I don't really remember.

Q    She did make a practice of making purchases, small purchases for the business and later having herself reimbursed, after presenting the receipts, and that sort of thing, didn't she?

A    I would just assume if she bought things for the apartments, she would, you know, get it from there. I don't really remember.

MR. HATFIELD: Thank you very much.


THE COURT: Mr. Panosh, any additional questions?

MR. PANOSH: Yes, please.


Q    Your best recollection of the amount of the insurance that you discussed with Patricia is what, ma'am?

A    I was thinking that it was 100 at that time. 1--

Q    But today, what is your best recollection?

MR. HATFIELD: Objection. It wouldn't be based on her knowledge.

THE COURT: Overruled.

A    Now, what do I -- what is it?

Q    Right.

A    Well, I would say that it's the $200,000.

Q    In any event, it was a large amount of money?

A    Yes.


Q    Drawing your attention to the yard sale that Mr. Hatfield brought up, from time to time is there property that's abandoned in the apartments?

A    Yes. People did -- have moved out and --

Q    And what's done with that?

A    Pardon me?

Q    What is done with that property?

A    Well

Q    Let me ask it this way. Do you know --

MR. HATFIELD: objection. He asked her a question.

THE COURT: Overruled. Proceed.

Q    Do you know whether or not that was part of the yard sale?

A    No, sir, I really don't know.

MR. PANOSH: No further questions.

THE COURT: You may step down, ma'am.


Q    Why

MR. HATFIELD: Well, I'm sorry.

THE COURT: I'm sorry.

Q    You told Detective Church right after you found out what happened to Patricia how much the insurance was, when she told the story to you, and now you say that you know


that it's a different amount. How did you find out it was a different amount?

A    Well, I don't know. Maybe at that time that she told me, maybe it was -- maybe she thought it was $100,000. But then later, it came out that it was $200,000.

Q    And that's based on stuff you were told by Mr. Panosh and Mr. Church and Mr. Pendergrass and all these people who are prosecuting this case, isn't it?

A    Yes, Sir.

MR. HATFIELD: Thank you.

THE COURT: step down, ma'am. (The witness left the witness stand.)




Published August 15, 2006.  Report broken links or other problems.

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